Burials

[iSuck345]

As we know, burials aren't a big subject, so let's make this quick: we can either dig a grave to put the body in, like the Christians (f***ing hipocrates that kill people and say the are doing it for peace, thye remember of the elves of dwarf fortress). We can also burn the body (I think that is Russian style). OR we may give it to the animals. The burial may also be EAT the body so yeah... ok this is to vague, guys we nead more suggestions, please contribute.

[Marcuss2]

Seems nice and very realistic. "What you want for food Jon?" "Leg of our dead captain"

Added to suggestions list

[Vaster]

Recently tragedy struck as I went on a recent suicide run against the Dead Cats for power boosting my skills a bit on a newer game.

Three of my beloved party members bit the dust before my own character managed to recover (wasn't meant to happen, my medic accidentally drew himself into combat and got his leg disabled), including my first companion Francois de Tyrann.

There isn't really anything you can do with their corpses other than carry them around. It seems highly disrespectful to just let the poor sods rot in the wasteland.

So. Why not gravestones? If someone's carrying a corpse, allow that person to construct a gravestone using building materials, anywhere on the map not in a town's vicinity. Or make it so graves can only be built in the vicinity of corpses (it'll take the closest corpse in vicinity for the name once completed) Once constructed, the corpse would disappear and the grave would display the name of the dead if clicked on.

[1337]

Merged topic

[Santaissick]

You can always put your fallen heroes to cages on display. That would be respectful!

You know, like - - - - Snow White. ?? Well... Maybe not that respectful after all.

[Vaster]

You can always put your fallen heroes to cages on display. That would be respectful!

You know, like - - - - Snow White. ?? Well... Maybe not that respectful after all.

Corpses? In my buildings? No thank you. Once Rigor Mortis sets in, you'll never get the bloody stink out of your home.

It'd be even worse with a morgue. All those cages with rotting corpses, decaying organs falling out and everything. Certainly not an environment for friends of the deceased to remember their fallen friends.

[Kamos]

I wouldn't mind a graveyard for companions and NPC's that impressed me.

[Halt]

I wouldn't mind a graveyard for companions and NPC's that impressed me.

ONLY Companions and NPC's that impressed you, however.

[Kamos]

The rest can be compost for all I care.

[jtgibson]

Burning is actually Pagan style, so "Russian"-ish, to the extent that Pagans worldwide used to burn their dead, including the Norse, the Muscovy, etc.

For that reason I would definitely lend support that it should be the preferred style.

When Chris looks into burial with more seriousness, I hope the body decay is expanded (through a user option) to occur over the span of several days instead of just 24 hours. I'd prefer a 72- to 168-hour decay period. It would be especially awesome if the models transitioned through three or four states of decay before vanishing. Nothing could be more iconic for this game than walking through the desert and coming across a half-dozen (dead) skeletons all still dressed in their armour.

Now on to my burial suggestions.

First off, we might as well take advantage of the fact of all of the work on the building system and use it liberally to implement the burial features.

Dignified Burial

This would basically be a 2x2 metre square. Choose "Dig Grave" and a coffin-shaped hole will be dug on the left, with the detritus from the dig being mounded on the right.

Graphically, the "hole" in the ground might not be technically unfeasible unless there are ways to stencil holes in the terrain mesh, but it could be faked by using a small depression in the gravesite mesh with a zero-specular black bottom and then making the texture on each side of the depression fade to black, to exaggerate depth.)

Bring a body to the hole and toss it inside, and the hole will change to reflect that there's "something" inside, an indistinct shape. Finally, Bury will cover the hole with the dirt pile. Once the body is buried, the entire gravesite itself disappears, and you're left with nothing but a 1x2 burial mound centred on the former gravesite. You can then optionally engrave and then mount a headstone for the burial mound.

(Ideally you would be able to mount a headstone at any stage of the process, so you could for instance have a grave with the name of your worst enemy on it, just waiting for the day it can be filled.)

If you want to be particularly generous, a coffin item could also be placed into the hole. A coffin would simply be an object which you load with a body and which you can then carry as if it were a non-ragdoll body. Using a coffin for a body is a sign of respect.

Undignified Burial

An undignified burial is, put simply, a mass grave. This is a 4x2 building. Choose Dig Mass Grave as the action and the assigned soldiers will dig out a 2x2 hole on one side and mound the dirt on the other. Once the hole is opened, toss the bodies in. They fall through the black hole and are removed from the game.

You can then optionally bury the bodies by covering them with dirt, which destroys the Mass Grave Site and creates a 2x2 Large Burial Mound, or you can simply leave the pit as-is to show off your atrocity (and serve as an excellent site for repeated burials).

For realism it might be prudent to prevent a mass grave from being filled with too many bodies. Any more than 10 bodies and you'll have to dig another mass grave, because the hole will be replaced with a "mound of bodies" texture. On the other hand, why bother with the added hassle when it's easier just to keep a quantum mass grave?

Funeral Pyre

A funeral pyre is a 2x2 building built out of wood, grass, or other flammable materials. Once built, you can Ignite it, and then you may pick up and throw bodies into it (you can do it in reverse order too). Bodies that are thrown into a funeral pyre, regardless of whether it is lit, are destroyed instantly in game terms (they disappear like bodies thrown into haystacks in Assassin's Creed). The smoke will start out as grey, but will turn black for each body it "contains", and the pyre will burn for an additional 2 hours for each body thrown in. After it has burned through all of the bodies, the smoke will return to grey. The pyre will burn for a final 2 hours when it has grey smoke before collapsing into ash, which will then disappear within 24-48 hours. If it is burning grey and another body is thrown in, it turns to black smoke again and the timer resets.

Can't Someone Else Do It?

If you bring a body that you didn't kill to a town of the same faction, they will thank you (with a tiny boost in faction relation) and bring the body to their outpost, where the body will then be removed from the game with the assumption that it was given a proper burial.

If you bring a body that you did kill to a town of the same faction, they should treat it as if you didn't kill them (lying through your teeth) unless you were witnessed by one or more people who still survive, in which case you should be correctly treated as a murderer. The suspiciousness of the circumstance and your mannerisms will reduce the faction relation reward by a small amount, since you are not obviously just a Good Samaritan bringing a body along for a proper burial.

Ultra Tech

Two words: giant oven.

Game Effects

If enemies find bodies that you killed which you left to rot in the sun, you will lose additional faction relation as soon as they find the bodies, per body.

If enemies find a mass grave with their bodies, you will suffer less faction relation loss per body.

If enemies find individual burial sites for their bodies, you will suffer no faction relation loss (other than that earned for killing them in the first place).

If friendlies find bodies which you left to rot in the sun without at least carrying one of the bodies, you will lose some faction relation if you were witnessed as present. The trigger of this relationship loss is if you leave a certain radius of the bodies with no enemy presence while at least one member of your party is not carrying anyone, and the remainder of the friendly presence already has their hands full.

If friendlies find a mass grave with their bodies, you will suffer no change in relation.

If friendlies find individual burial sites for their bodies, you will gain faction relation.

If a coffin was used for any body, whether enemy or friendly, that was buried individually, it causes a small boost in faction relation. If you bury enemies in coffins they will actually gain relation with you, since it is a deep sign of respect and proves that you are, if nothing else, a worthy adversary.

Neutrals will not change relation if you fail to bury their bodies or if you bury them in a mass grave, but will still gain relation if you bury them in individual graves.

Note that NPCs who have killed other NPCs will deliberately show no respect to their enemies, and will leave them to rot. This is understood as the status quo in the game. They will/should however collect their own dead (one dead per one survivor) to bring them to towns or make a funeral pyre to burn them.

[Vaster]

<snip>

That'd be pretty amazing, but honestly I think it's needlessly complex for a grave/burial system. It's an otherwise small feature that most players would not *truly* focus on for all the work one would have to be put into that.

If a burial system were indeed added, it should be of simple design, because it's a simple feature.

[TheHappyPyro]

Ooh.. what if we could be grave robbers.. sneaking into graveyards at night, digging up corpses, and stealing stuff.

[iSuck345]

Ooh.. what if we could be grave robbers.. sneaking into graveyards at night, digging up corpses, and stealing stuff.

Yes indeed, and if someone spotted us and said "IM GOING TO CALL DA COPS", you have 2 choices.
1: kill him
2: "F*** DA POLICE" and run like there was no tommorrow.

[jtgibson]

That'd be pretty amazing, but honestly I think it's needlessly complex for a grave/burial system. It's an otherwise small feature that most players would not *truly* focus on for all the work one would have to be put into that.

If a burial system were indeed added, it should be of simple design, because it's a simple feature.

It's actually ultimately very simple: a small little burial site with individual capacity which would take less than a few minutes of game time for four soldiers to dig (this is desert soil, remember), a slightly larger burial site with quantumly-indefinite capacity that would take no more than half a game hour to dig, or a more complex method of getting rid of them that would be a status symbol. Even the state machine that handles a burial is simple: find body nearby, if body is enemy and no one is presently tasked to pick up body, get body, move to hole, dump into hole, repeat until no enemy bodies left.

Or you could simply leave your enemies to rot, like the NPCs do. But then you'll have unsightly skeletons and bodies mucking up your beautiful estate for up to 7 days, and you'll be given a mild disincentive to do so that is generally weak enough not to matter (the NPCs don't do it themselves, after all).

The most complicated thing would be adding NPC behaviour for lighting a funeral pyre, because it would have to include automatic building site selection. Everything else is just simple condition-and-action triggers. =)

In the simplest terms: it's a roleplay-oriented and therefore optional feature, but something that would greatly improve the atmosphere for those people willing to put in the effort. Those people unwilling to put in the effort are unlikely to suffer for it. Since all of the systems for buildings are already in place, it's mostly a matter of adding content!

[Vaster]

<snip>

Well, I wasn't referring for it being needlessly complex for the players themselves. (I love needlessly complex features as long as they don't distract from the development of other features. And I'd definitely love a burial system like what you're suggesting). I was referring to the fact that it's needlessly complex for the development end (for Chris to add that content, I mean). I know it's not a massive amount of content to add, nor is it massively complex. But I'm looking at in terms of a ratio. It's an optional feature that's considered more of a "Oh, it's neat I can do that" rather than "This is the most amazing thing I've ever experienced".

I just don't believe it warrants that much focus on the development end is all.

[iSuck345]

Oh what if the burial sites might polute the ground and damage agriculture? You wold have to choose where to put it. It may also affect health, if too many bodies lie around they will obviously damage health. BUT if the graves are close to town, they might do less damage to health, but still do damage, they may start a disease.

[Tolwrath]

Snip.

I agree with this. If we get a manual burial system, I would very much like to see a manual corpse decay slider allowing longer body stay, or turning off decay altogether. Who wouldn't want to build their city walls out of the bodies of their enemies?

For that matter what about Example burials? Like lining the road with crucified people, heads on pikes, or people being hanged.

[DrZamf]

Honestly, I'd love to be able to bury people. If you kill someone or come across people who've been killed you could bury their bodies kind of like the [Dispose body] button from Morrowind. or at the very least you could replace the body with a dirt mound that has the deceased's weapon sticking blade down in the grave.

It'd be pretty bad ass to come across the sight of a battle that just has like 30 blades sticking out of the grown in memorial for the warriors that fell.

...you know, until you looted the swords for profit.

[Kodiak]

Sounds like a good system. Bury your companions and give respectful burials to strong foes. Or build a bandit base and hang corpses from poles out front.


Implement corpse hanging.

[Darkenneko]

With the addition to NPC's/Slaves running towns in the future, I think an optimal implantation of the system might go in a manner such as.

A. Dedicate an Area for a graveyard, the area is kept barren/empty for now.

B. Dedicate NPC/Party Member/Slave as Grave Keeper, this man spends hours dedicated to collecting bodies, burying them in the locations and tending to the fields, along with protection against desecration.

C. Bodies are tagged/flagged by the player, so they are marked to be buried, aka, after that the style is chosen, "Important", "Good Warrior", "Peasant", "Slave", Etc. When creating/digging the grave, different styles use different materials and take different times to be created, which then the grave is dug and the body is laid to rest.

D. Clicking on the designated area brings up a GUI, showing plot numbers with the residents that lay inside a long with whatever weapons/items/keepsakes/ buried with that member.

That's kind of how I see the system being implemented, if at all. It would allow for customization of who gets what kind of burial and even service, along with if they're buried with something to having their own plots. This lets the player still be in control of who is buried, but leaves the leg work/clicking mostly to the NPC/Team Mate/Slave.

Anywho, that's just my personal thought on it.