Balance/Game Feel.

[Maeltorn]

I could rant about this, but I'll sum it up with one question.

Why am I getting my ass beat by a dude in rags with a stick when I start with a sword?

[Mattk50]

for all intents and purposes, your starting sword is so rusted that it might as well be a stick. Besides, depending on which start you picked, that guy with a stick is far more skilled with it than you, and probably has a horde of friends. this game doesn't baby you, your characters arent magically more powerful.

[Kagoliksis]

Because you start out not very good with the sword. Just because you own a sword does not mean you can use it better than a guy with rags with a rod. it take time and practice to use it better. And the guys wuth rags usually dont travel alone so its hard to fight them in alone. All in all. its about your skill as a fighter. if you are to weak you can get beat by anything.

[Tolwrath]

To elaborate on what my brother, Kago, said: you have no training or experience at the start of the game. Meanwhile the bandits you're attacking are people who have been killing and robbing other people just to survive. Of course they're better at fighting than some nobody, they do it every day.

BTW a quick language lesson to explain the title:
Samurai is a swordsman who serves. Ronin is a samurai without a master. Kenshi is just a guy with a sword. Not someone in the military, not a serving. Just a guy with a sword.

[Zeal]

In real life, I disarmed a broomstick out of my friend's hands while i was wielding a spoon... Just sayin..

for all intents and purposes, your starting sword is so rusted that it might as well be a stick. Besides, depending on which start you picked, that guy with a stick is far more skilled with it than you, and probably has a horde of friends. this game doesn't baby you, your characters arent magically more powerful.

And actually, there is one start where you have absolutely no stats (1'sies), and will result in your butt being kicked around so easily, but it starts you with a sword that is stronger than any you could obtain anywhere in the game until you got into Edge crafting yourself prior to 0.70. Just holding a great weapon doesn't mean you know how to use it.

[Maeltorn]

Why am I wandering around with a crappy sword if I have no idea what I'm doing?

To me I feel like I should be able to 1v1 a guy from the weakest mob in the game from the start of the game. It might only take a handful of hours to get to a point where I can actually fight dudes, but for people just starting this would make them feel very defeated and frustrated.

I am personally willing to push through the (imo) boring start of the game to make my dude more powerful, but I really do think it's boring. Has there ever been any thought into starting the game with a number of skill points that you can put into skills to gear your character to one direction from the get-go?

[Hatsune_Neko]

Why am I wandering around with a crappy sword if I have no idea what I'm doing?

you have to start some place.

To me I feel like I should be able to 1v1 a guy from the weakest mob in the game from the start of the game. It might only take a handful of hours to get to a point where I can actually fight dudes, but for people just starting this would make them feel very defeated and frustrated.

okies, go out with no training and fight someone who has been fighting for a living, see who wins. then try it against a group of people.

I am personally willing to push through the (imo) boring start of the game to make my dude more powerful, but I really do think it's boring. Has there ever been any thought into starting the game with a number of skill points that you can put into skills to gear your character to one direction from the get-go?

the point is you have to work to get to a point where you can eventually stand up to the bandits from the lowest to eventually the hardest. and that takes time.
if you want an augmented start you can make a Mod for yourself and adjust your starting character stats.

[Maeltorn]

You're talking like I don't understand what the game is like right now. :T I'm suggesting that it should be different and you've given absolutely no feedback on that.

[Zeal]

You're talking like I don't understand what the game is like right now. :T I'm suggesting that it should be different and you've given absolutely no feedback on that.

The game shouldn't be different though regarding this. The game is designed around "You are a nobody".

If you feel like some of the starts make you feel overwhelmingly useless, try other starts. There are starts to accomadate that. There's even a start that starts you off with all 20-25s in combat skills and stats other than athletics and toughness. "The Retired Captain". There's also a start that begins you with multiple companions. There are many different starts to choose from to better fit your starting playstyle.

There are also training dummies to use to raise your combat skills to a point, but you will have to eventually go out and do actual combat.

It's probably not necessary to change the starts that are MEANT to be "I'm weak as butter" starts. Choose a different start, because some people like those starts, and i'm sure in time you will too once you get more familiar with the game. I typically always choose rock bottom start unless it's just for testing purposes.

--edited because.. Not "Old Soldier". the start is called "The Retired Captain"

[Kagoliksis]

You're talking like I don't understand what the game is like right now. :T I'm suggesting that it should be different and you've given absolutely no feedback on that.

This game is meant to be difficult. there are no heros. no villans. you are just somebody who just joined a world of pain and difficulties just to survive. The reason you suck is because it depends on your start. and even that does not make you a somebody. You are not anyone special until you make yourself special. you are saying earlier that you should be given options to make it where you have an advantage. you dont. this game can be seen as boring by people who are just given everything. You want to be good? you have to do it yourself? want to be the leader of the bandits or something? you have to earn it. this game does not baby you and give you everything you want. the world is harsh,and yo you have to focus on survival. and you are a nobody. This game takes pride in its abillity to get rid of babying.

[Aereto]

Even the mightiest of warriors had to start from the bottom, where everyone is literally better in every aspect due to their experience. The accomplishment is in clawing your way into being able to survive, then clawing again to match up those who cross you, then again to successfully go up against much stronger warriors or enemies that are not the usual sword-wielding human variety.

Getting strong takes time, while safety in numbers takes time and money. Eyes open for anyone and anything who looks at you wrong. Practice running all over the place with pants off and see if anything hostile notices. (I did) Take mental notes of worthy trading routes to find high payoffs for that sheet of chainmail.

A single or a team of powerful warriors could not be without the others who made contributions. After all, who doesn't want to buy most of the weapons and armor, when you can make them better yourself? Especially after spending time and money researching in a house bought in a town.

Trying to do everything solo takes guts and wits, and not for the faint of will. Those solo traders and adventurers in the game have 30-50 combat skills for a reason.

[Mattk50]

Why am I wandering around with a crappy sword if I have no idea what I'm doing?

To me I feel like I should be able to 1v1 a guy from the weakest mob in the game from the start of the game. It might only take a handful of hours to get to a point where I can actually fight dudes, but for people just starting this would make them feel very defeated and frustrated.

I am personally willing to push through the (imo) boring start of the game to make my dude more powerful, but I really do think it's boring. Has there ever been any thought into starting the game with a number of skill points that you can put into skills to gear your character to one direction from the get-go?

Lmao, there are easy starts in the start menu. you should have picked one instead of bitching here, or are you trying to get the rock bottom hardcore start pussified just so you dont have to feel like the king of casuals?

And yes, the rock bottom start does suck, it is a struggle, but thats not the problem. The problem is there arent a ton of ways to crawl out of that yet, as the game is further developed it will get more interesting. But as is, there are ways, Point is you cant survive on your own, use the friendly npcs to your advantage and try to help them in fights.

[ultima888]

I could rant about this, but I'll sum it up with one question.

Why am I getting my ass beat by a dude in rags with a stick when I start with a sword?

To answer you question simply in one sentence: Because you have no skill!

There are a lot of starts, which can help you start off easier or harder. Or you can just stick with the patrol guys and get some training before trying to go 1on1 with no skills and no training...

[Zeal]

Point is you cant survive on your own, use the friendly npcs to your advantage and try to help them in fights.

False.

That is what i love about this game. Know your cards and how to play them, and you can become a solo god in rockbottom start with everyone as an enemy from day one.

[Mattk50]

Point is you cant survive on your own, use the friendly npcs to your advantage and try to help them in fights.

False.

That is what i love about this game. Know your cards and how to play them, and you can become a solo god in rockbottom start with everyone as an enemy from day one.

Well, HE can't survive on his own, i wasn't referring to the rest of us. Theres a few ways to do it without working with other npcs as allies/trading but they are time consuming and probably wont be possible once food is a thing characters need.

[DattMuffinMan]

The game as of now isn't complete. Thus the game as of now is EASY.

You grind/recruit to cap. Then you can wipe out entire Villages/cities as if it were child's play.

The game right now has no world Dynamic that can threaten the player, examples.
Starvation,Dehydration.Death to exposure. Wildlife(already in experimental),dynamic factions. Extreme weather, sieges, damage to buildings. An ever changing trade system(static prices make Merchant route easy peasy). Party morale, infighting. Battle fatigue, sleep deprivation, illness. Fog of war for map(might not be added), penalty for overtly cruel actions. Armies/militaries, upkeep. Lack of formations/battle strategy(might never be added). Perishing of unpracticed skills.

Those are off the top of my head, and most of them may never be added but the point is; that once you grind into god mode/mid-range you stay there. The environment itself as of now does nothing to the player, nor do you need supplies to upkeep your group while out in the wastes for extended trips. On top of this you don't need to worry about angering/slaughtering other factions as there is little to no war dynamic present. Plus the fact you can become absolutely independent easily from such factions/towns.

The balance/game feel for me right now, is that the sandbox world is child's play to a patient and understanding player.

[ultima888]

And since we are on the topic on balancing, may I suggest some tuning to the wild animals? Started a new game on "Freedom Seeker", and one single "Dog" can wipe out the entire team...even when one of the squad member is an old soldier with skills 25+... I can understand other type of animals able to do that, but a single "Dog"?
I understand animal is new and probably need tuning, just making a note for the developer, not really complaining.

[itkotw2000]

One thing that I like about this game is the difficulty system. I hate (HATE!!) games that scale difficulty based on your level. Old game Daggerfall was like that. At level 1 enemies at the start would hit you for, lets say, 5% of your HP. If you came back 50 levels later those same enemies, they hit you for, guess what, 5% of your HPs. I think us have gamers have also been ruined by games that scale the difficulty based on how far you walk from the starting city. Rats outside the front gate - lvls 1-5. Snakes and bats a little farther out - lvls 5 - 10. Orcs in the next zone - lvls 10 - 15.

BOOOORRRING...

That being said, in the beginning, Kenshi is about getting your own squad together. All of your money should be spent on recruiting in the local bars. Then run to the next town, recruit there. Run away from bad guys when you meet them until you have a few squad-mates. Don't waste money on heavy armor or a 2000 dollar sword that is only .1 damage better, get some friends. You will still lose, but that's the fun.

Also, in the very beginning you may not be able to make money by killing bad guys. Scavenging from other people's battles is the way to go. DO NOT pass an opportunity. And if you see a battle, choose a side and fight bad guys. This way you will get skills without losing (you will still get beat sometimes).

P.s. Don't fight leviathans, ever...

[Aereto]

And since we are on the topic on balancing, may I suggest some tuning to the wild animals? Started a new game on "Freedom Seeker", and one single "Dog" can wipe out the entire team...even when one of the squad member is an old soldier with skills 25+... I can understand other type of animals able to do that, but a single "Dog"?
I understand animal is new and probably need tuning, just making a note for the developer, not really complaining.

That is understandable. Until there are ranged infantry, melee units, even at 25 combat skills, would have problems going up against non-human targets, especially predators designed for close quarters.

[Zeal]

And since we are on the topic on balancing, may I suggest some tuning to the wild animals? Started a new game on "Freedom Seeker", and one single "Dog" can wipe out the entire team...even when one of the squad member is an old soldier with skills 25+... I can understand other type of animals able to do that, but a single "Dog"?
I understand animal is new and probably need tuning, just making a note for the developer, not really complaining.

Sounds like you ran into a pretty nasty beast there. I ran into a solo dog this morning with my "old soldier" starting stats and equipment, and took it down rather easily. The only stat it had over 20 was attack, and it was 21. It's defense was something like 14, and it's toughness was somewhere around there too.