The Solution to Multiplayer

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espresso_junkie
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:57 pm

Hello everyone, I've heard a rumor that modders have been discussing multiplayer options. If that's even possible within the game engine. So at work (I work overnight shifts and have plenty of time to think) I thought of the best possible, in my opinion, way to do multiplayer. This can be an idea the devs could think about as well. I'm giving it out for free. ;)

First and foremost, this does not included any pvp aspects. Second of all, some may be disappointed that I'm not going to mention co-op in any way. So with that out of the way, here is my idea.

Kenshi's world is totally open ended. Random events occur, towns get raided, prisoners break out of slave camps and etcetera. So what if instead of pvp or co-op we take it in a different direction. Take for example people telling stories that they travel to a vault that's within the map. The first time they go there and there are a ton of slaves. Days, weeks or even months in-game time pass and they travel there again. This time however the slaves are all missing. But why? Did someone break them out? Did they escape during a raid from a different faction? Or how about a player also playing Kenshi ran in there, and was chased out by all the guards. The slaves took advantage of this and escaped then?

To put it simply, indirectly affecting someone else's world through the actions they've taken within theirs. Of course you can't have this happening all the time. So a simple randomizer code picks from one player's world, an action that was taken, and applies it to your world. You would have to limit the options the script would pick from. So player's that wipe out an entire city doesn't negatively impact your world and make it a barren place with no NPC's. But things like breaking out slaves, wiping out small camps (that can repopulate) and many other things could happen within your world.

This keeps the general gameplay flow consistent with what we have now. But whenever you discover these things you can always have in the back of your mind that some other unknown faction (player controlled) caused this event to take place. A random shop is broke because another player had robbed them dry the night before. A much more intuitive system that allows players to discover things and tell the tale later on. Did you go to the swamp and see a village getting over-run by blood spiders because another player unlocked the village gate?

The possibilities are endless. But we're still left with a world that retains the balance the devs had in mind. I'm no game programmer but because there is no pvp or co-op you could almost have one server to run the data being collected by players. A "simple" script that looks for tags being caused by players. And then pushes out a "simple" text file to a player's game to cause an event. I put simple in quotations because the only coding I know is website site stuff like php and mysql. So it would be like a person adding a thread on the forums and then people see this thread. But again, I'm no game programmer. This could actually be extremely complicated.

But think about it. Let's hear your thoughts! And everyone have a good one! We are almost to 1.0!!

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Hatsune_Neko
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Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:24 pm

MP is not possible with the game
the Engine does not allow it
the base game code and engine would have to be completely redone. it would be easier to make Kenshi 2 then it would be to make MP possible for the game.

and there has been talk of MP for the game by Modders for a very long time. even some claimed to have made it work, but no one has ever offered proof.
not to mention they don't have access to the games code to redo it.

the long running topic on it on steam.
Is there hope for Online, Multiplayer, Co-Op, Lan mod?
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Sol Lignum
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Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Hey, junkie. I feel your idea there. Actually, that one might just work out, if implemented correctly. There was one experimental game, called Moirai, that did just that, and it was awesome. However, that'd add couple of complicated steps on the player's side.

First, you're finishing your game and system has to upload your save to a database. So, an annoying "please do not turn off your system" message. Then some software has to extract all the changes, pick those that are allowed, and then recompress everything into a new, "injection-ready" savefile. Then, when somebody's starting a game in such a "not-so-multiplayer-mode" they have to wait untill the changes takes place. In the process it might also mess up your own savefiles and you're screwed :D Ofc, some backup function is needed.

So, Neko, the idea here is, that it's not actually multiplayer. The scheme is that some changes that were made at one player's world are being somehow injected into other player's world, with some clever software inbetween.

espresso_junkie
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Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:12 pm

Hatsune_Neko I do see what you're saying. And I do understand now that multiplayer is not an option via the engine. However, Sol helped me out with my words in that, it isn't multiplayer in a traditional sense. Sort of like how No Man's Sky does their multiplayer. You can still see that someone discovered the planet and named it. But you can't jump into a co-op game and fly around together.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a simple text document that has tags inside it. Say like, #slaveescape_WorldsEnd for example. This tag would be created when a player picks the lock of a slaves cage and is released.

Sometimes we see events occur because of NPC guards routes that a nest has been wiped out. So if a player did it the tag #nest192_wipedout would be put in the text document. This would limit the file size to kb's in size and wouldn't cause loading issues for people with weaker systems. While at the same time keep server load and player upload speeds to a minimum.

But I totally understand that if even something like that couldn't be put in place. It's just a wild idea I had the other night and figured I'd throw it out there via the Modding section in the case that it could be a feasible option. :)

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Hatsune_Neko
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Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:45 pm

the idea is sound but implementation wouldn't be.
Sorry but it's still a form of Multiplayer.

Not trying to shoot your idea down or anything but the information comes from the Dev. the game would never be able to do it, no matter how much you tweek it. or as the Dev said. it's easier to scrap the game and start over then try to add MP functionality to the game.

the difference between No Man's Sky and kenshi is that NMS has the functionality of MP, even in its wierd form when it was released.
and now 2 years later it's finally getting what they originally promised. The functionality was always there though. same can be said for Skyrim. its based on a engine that has MP functionality. which is why it's finally getting MP ability even if it took modders years to get it to work.

but this idea might work for Kenshi 2 ( if he makes a Kenshi 2 that is ) if the Dev uses a off the shelf engine ( since all usually have MP functionality in them now ). he could still make it a SP game, but modders would be able to eventually add MP support. only because the engine would have that ability.
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espresso_junkie
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:23 am

Fair enough then. :)

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Sol Lignum
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:49 am

I'm thinking that you've maybe taken a wrong start. Multiplayer is a very sensitive subject to Kenshi, it's been requested many dozens of times and everyone from devs to admins grew weary of answering "no multiplayer is planned it is no possible, only in kenshi 2 maybe".

So if you would have initially thrown away the word, and maybe post a feature request with something along the lines of "Certain player's actions indirectly affecting other players' worlds", then maybe it would've met far less criticism :)

It still requires some clever software to perform the actions, and it still requires a server to run it, but i don't believe it would've need any tweaks and changes in the game's engine itself. Therefore, it might actually be very doable. Maybe not at the release, but sometime after.

Basically, to sum up, the game would upload a txt files with some changes, kinda like steam synch works, then clever software part, and then players would receive an updates that would go into, say "Shared Save File" in the "save" or "save2" folder, and then player could load it up and see what happened while they were away. So it's like sharing your savefile with others, only they get to keep their squad and property.

espresso_junkie
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:07 pm

I will admit I am still very new to Kenshi. I bought it Jan. 2nd and have put over 130 hours into since then. I love everything about the game but didn't know much about what all the discussions have been. I've been watching Peeve's twitch VODs of his playthrough and fell in love.

So yea, maybe I shouldn't have titled the thread as I did. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. :P

I have gained a lot of respect for the developers and creators at Lo-Fi games this past month. And I never intended to strike a nerve on something that's been discussed and put down ad nauseam. I will also say I look forward to anything they do in the future. Hopefully they benefit enough after official launch to move on to something just as unique and cool as Kenshi is. Maybe even with a feature that we have discussed. ;) :P

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Sol Lignum
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:34 pm

espresso_junkie wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:07 pm
(...) And I never intended to strike a nerve on something that's been discussed and put down ad nauseam. (...) Hopefully they benefit enough after official launch to move on to something just as unique and cool as Kenshi is.
Was just thinking out loud, nothing more :) I don't think it's that bad, just a very old topic battered down to shreds :)

I'm with you on the second one. Although i've not yet completed Kenshi, i already can't wait to see what else Captain has up his sleeve :)

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Hatsune_Neko
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:40 pm

@espresso_junkie
dont worry to much about it. MP and ability to kill when down are two of the most talked about topics and both are not being added. one for technical reasons other for Dev decision.

but as Sol Lignum said, some topics are just repeating of us confirming if its coming to the game or not, been doing it for nearly 5 years now.

you will see me respond to most topics as i tend to be the most active here on the main forums.

glad to have you aboard your new addiction erm, game, yes game.
fresh ideas are always a plus. just be ready for a debate, i like debating ideas lol
Do you believe the sexes should be equal?
Oh heavens no.
Then Men would become unmanageable

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