Question Regarding Steam Workshop Moderation

[oi__io]

Not sure whether this is an appropriate place to post this but since it is regarding Kenshi modding, thought might as well ask my questions here. If this is not the right place, please move this to appropriate thread.

I'm sure you guys are well aware of the ongoing situation in the Steam Workshop surrounding conjoh's mod being stolen and reuploaded without his permission. Hatsune mentioned something about not having "moderation powers" over the Workshop. My question is: who does?

Does Shidan have the authority to remove mods in the Workshop? How about Luminaire? Does the devs have authority to step in? Or only Valve themselves have the sole authority to decide what can be removed?

I'm not using Discord so I'm not privy of any (if there is any) discussion there about this matter but so far the vocal ones in the comment section of said mod are leaning towards support of mod theft and they are getting more and more embolden by the fact that the mod is still there even after conjoh has commented that the mod is his and it is reuploaded without permission and some even go so far as saying that they will reup the mod again and again if it is taken down.

I've seen Kenshi official twitter account retweet conjoh's on more than one occasion in the past. I assume the devs are at least aware of conjoh and his mods. The lack of action on this matter is not instilling a great deal of confidence for Kenshi modders. If this could happen to conjoh with impunity, will it also happen to other modders?

What will happen if someone decided to reupload mods by Shidan, Luminaire, Hatsune, Nanogiraffe, Space_Lettuce_OG, Arkhiel, Vampireteddygram, OMOCHI, or ONJOY just to name a few, on the Workshop? Will they be able to get away with it without any repercussion? If your mod is stolen, what can you do?

What will happen if any existing modder decided to take their mod off the Workshop but somehow the mod is being reup without the modder's permission? Will that be acceptable even if the original modder has expressed plainly that they are against it? Are there any official stand by the moderators and the devs on this issue?

I feel like these are important questions that needed to be addressed as we move forward now that the community is rapidly growing. I hope this will get a proper respond.

[Hatsune_Neko]

only the Dev and Steam has the power atm.
but if it gets any worse concerning the stolen mod i was thinking of asking for the rights for us moderators to moderate the modding Area. as this is the second case of someone stealing someone elses work and re-uploading it with out permission.

[oi__io]

If that is so, are the devs aware of this particular situation? I know it is years end and just after holiday, but the mod has been allowed to gain traction for almost a week without any action taken to assure any of us that the devs care about the community and that original author do have a say in what can and cannot be reuploaded to the Workshop.

After a week on inaction, are we to assume that the devs prefer to keep their hands clean of this mess and just let it take its own course? Let it die down and to be quietly swept under the rug? If it can happen to conjoh, what assurance do we have that it will not happen to the rest of us? And if it does happen to us, should we just roll over and accept it?

I refuse to believe that the devs will just let this happen but I'm slowly losing my faith. I hope Chris, Nat and Sam will read this.

[Kruniac]

Mod authors do not have control of distribution once a mod hits the internet. Whether they should be able to have that control is up for debate, but the fact is that they do not.

A great example is this situation. Even if moderators can yank a mod from the workshop at will, modpiracy will have links, skymods, and about a half dozen other sources will still have the mods hosted.

Personally, I archive all of the best mods (or best in my opinion) so I can personally host them if they get taken down from the workshop. I will not allow one person's whims to dictate what I can and cannot play on my PC in my apartment. That's just silly.

Claiming someone's mod as their own is a different matter. I get why it happens, but it isn't right.

I'm assuming we're talking about the Bouncing Boobs mod. It is available on Skymods, I've archived it, and it's on the Workshop. If it gets taken off of the workshop, it will still be elsewhere, permanently.

Frankly, the amount of attention this situation is receiving is both overly dramatic and makes the situation get that much more attention, which causes people (like me) to seek out these discontinued mods and keep them alive. Even something as innocuous as your post, expressing concern about mod pilfering, has reminded me to download all of your workshop items, rename the folders, and toss them in my "Offline Mods" folder.

TL;DR - This isn't a big deal. No one can stop mods from being distributed once they hit the internet. If you yank your mods due to a tantrum, and someone else puts them somewhere, it isn't the end of the world. Life will go on, the modding community (and indeed the entire Kenshi community) will miss you, and your mods will be put to good use.

Oh, and taking credit for someone's work is wrong, regardless of the situation.

That's about it.

[Hatsune_Neko]

the Mod in question is indeed Bouncing boobs
The original Mod Author either had it removed or steam removed it. A topic was made asking where it went.
in the ensuing discussion a report was made about a link that had said mod. it was the Author of the mod asking us to remove the link, which we did.

shortly after that, the new person uploaded the same mod to steam workshop. where in i got a report via my DMs about it. With teh description of the mod stating it was a re-upload of the mod that went missing. which included a Nexus Link.
the original maker of the mod clearly did not want his mod re-uploaded. which is with in his rights. the new person used everything from the original mod page. ( i have a backup of the original mod as well ) file size and everything matched up perfectly. so was indeed a re-upload.

This was reported to Nexus, who immediately shut off access to the Mod. and then removed it entirely.
shortly after that the new person removed the link to nexus from the description, then in another edit later on, changed the description for re-upload of the original to them claiming they made it.

Which has now neatly turned this mess from one of asking to simply remove because the Mod Author does not want his mod published to out right stealing of said mod. Abusive language has also been used in the comment section of the Mod including threats of death by AIDs. including posting links to pirate sources for Mods that have been taken down and can not be re-uploaded elsewhere due to mod authors consent not allowing it.

And so far steam has done nothing about it.

[oi__io]

Kruniac, I made my mods and publish them to the Workshop because I want to share it with everyone else. I'm well aware that it is being reuploaded outside the Workshop and there's nothing I can do about that. But should one day someone decided to reupload it on the Workshop, the same platform I chose to share it on, and then claim it to be their own and get away with it, that is downright disrespectful, despicable and sad.

When Fallout 4 first support modding for consoles, there's a huge sh*tstorm going on when third party took mods from Nexus and reuploaded it on Bathesda's website for console users without original author's permission. Nexus took a stand to support original author but Bathesda let it happen and did very little to support the original modders. If the same is to happen to Kenshi, I don't think I want to be part of that community where the devs simply don't want to get involve in doing what's right just to protect their own interest.

I hope it doesn't come to that and I wish there's an explanation on this but we hear nothing from the devs on this issue so far and it's not looking good.

I'm so excited to get working on my mods again this week. I got so many more planned for release in the near future. I know it may sounds overdramatic to some but I've spent almost 18 hours this week working on updating one of my mods and cleaning up another mod that I've spent close to 100 hours on. It is close to completion but now I don't even know if all that time spent is worth it anymore.

I started to see things from conjoh's perspective. Why should I put hours into something I'm passionate about and when I share it with everyone else, it got stolen with impunity and people say it is not a big deal? Why should I care about a community that doesn't care about me?

I'm not going to do something petty like taking my mods off the Workshop. But if it is not worth it anymore, I'll simply stop and move on.