Lo-Fi Games

So I've noticed that once you researched an upgrade for a building, the previous tier can no longer be constructed, which can be kind of annoying if you want to save power/construction materials (and crafting materials in the case of weapon smithing benches). Also, building exterior buildings that consume (or produce) power seems to trigger the founding of a new player outpost, which is also annoying if you don't want the map to be littered with your outposts all over the place. Is there some way to reenable those structures in the forgotten construction set?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: So I've tried removing the "Upgradeable to" entry for the relevant building. My theory is that upgradeable buildings are disabled by the game once the upgraded variant becomes available. Unfortunately this didn't work as the changes don't seem to be saved. I can "remove from list" the upgrade entry perfectly 'fine', but it comes back once I reload the mod. Any thoughts?

Maybe try to separate research into small peaces, each unlocking one building.

Luqin wrote:Maybe try to separate research into small peaces, each unlocking one building.

Sorry, but I don't quite understand what you are trying to say there. If you were suggesting to mod research techs so that they only unlock one building, well "Wells II" only unlocks Well II and nothing else. If you were suggesting that I only do research one at a time so I have time to build previous structures, well, I already researched "Wells II" (and "Advanced Weapon Smithing") and nothing short of an import squad (with "import techs" disabled) could help with that, and I don't really want to research everything from scratch again.

The main reason why I wanted to do this is because I have cottage industries running out of bought houses in towns. Trader visits to player outposts are currently broken, so I'm forced to put my trade goods production centers in towns to minimize walking time (plus, well, you're forced to leave a squad member town if you want a waypoint to travel there without excessive scrolling anyway, so you might as well put him to use), with the raw materials (wheatstraw/hemp/raw iron/etc.) being produced right on the outskirts of town.

Powered wells (and anything else that receives or produces power, if built outdoors) trigger the formation of a new player outpost. This is annoying as it triggers raids all over the place, and seems to increase load times and messes with AI pathfinding if there are too many outposts on the map. Or at least that appears so, as things work better when I only had one outpost. Alternatively, it could be because the secondary outposts are placed too close to other towns, and the overlapping area of influence wrecks havoc on the game engine. I mean, I could put the buildings further away, but that removes the whole point of setting up a cottage industry (namely, faster transportation of goods, as things are produced on site).

I could bypass the issue by modding Wells II to not use any power. This lets me build them without triggering the founding of a new player outpost. I could then unload the mod so that the wells resume consuming power, but I'm not too sure what the effects would be (of saving a game with a mod, and then saving the game without mods later on) on the long-term stability of the game.

(And of course, this method doesn't allow me to build more Weapon Smithing Benches I . Those are useful when crafting lower-end equipment for sparring purposes (read: beating the tar out of prisoners) as they only consume raw iron, unlike the higher tier smithing benches.)

Okay, the researching of next tier tech is to produce better ways to create more and better equipment. So it stand to reason that upon completing research that offers a stone refinery that gives better performance with the need for less man power, the previous concept would be passed over as obsolete. This is probably why when u research the weaponsmith bench to lvl 2,3 and so on, the previous type is removed. If you don't want the original option to be removed then don't research a better way. Or you could build 1 of the original options and just not upgrade it.

But in regards to the ' multiple out posts ' if you insists on spreading things out across the map, then you will just have to deal with it. Personally, I have 1 outpost and 15 ppl, giving me 14 to work and protect the outpost an 1 (my main) to ferry produce to different towns. I have trekked from one side of the map fair across to the other just focusing on the one travelling and had no issue.

Rather than altering the way the game sorts those aspects why not try and create a mod that allows you to select a town on the map to travel to. Sort of like a fast travel option, but it makes your toon trek it without havint to keep tellin them to move by clicking on the screen.

Sydious wrote:Okay, the researching of next tier tech is to produce better ways to create more and better equipment. So it stand to reason that upon completing research that offers a stone refinery that gives better performance with the need for less man power, the previous concept would be passed over as obsolete. This is probably why when u research the weaponsmith bench to lvl 2,3 and so on, the previous type is removed. If you don't want the original option to be removed then don't research a better way. Or you could build 1 of the original options and just not upgrade it.

Ah yes, because the game told me that it was going to remove those "original options" before I did the research. Nope, it didn't. Like I said, my other option at this point is to to an "import squad" without importing techs, which is unfeasible for me.

And since you seem to be arguing from a realism standpoint there, I would like to point out that in real life the handsaw didn't become obsolete just because somebody invented a rotary saw. I mean, sure, it offers better performance for less manpower, and you would like to use the rotary saw if you can get one, sure, but sometimes you have to do without power. Or maybe the rotary saw costs more. Exactly my problem.

(And also maybe I'm used to 4-X games where you can still build older techs despite having researched the newer ones. And you would want to do it because sometimes the old stuff is cheaper and is less reliant on certain other things, such as upkeep like power)

And sometimes, well, you want to use a dot-matrix printer instead of wasting ink on your inkjet one, even if the former is slower. Or, alternatively, you practice drawing with cheap paints and paper instead of the quality ones intended for professionals. See the analogy with weaponsmithing benches there?

Sydious wrote:But in regards to the ' multiple out posts ' if you insists on spreading things out across the map, then you will just have to deal with it. Personally, I have 1 outpost and 15 ppl, giving me 14 to work and protect the outpost an 1 (my main) to ferry produce to different towns. I have trekked from one side of the map fair across to the other just focusing on the one travelling and had no issue.

See, transporting goods to me is something that I want less micromanagement on (yes and I know it's in the roadmap, and yes, the usual blah blah blah "it's an alpha" excuse. But I'm trying to make do with what is currently available in the game and with what tools currently made available to modify the game, instead of waiting for an update in some indefinite time in the future). I don't think I need to walk through trade routes manually after the first time. My attention is elsewhere controlling my combat squad to raid cannibal villages and rescuing people instead, and having to pause the game every twenty seconds to center the camera on the squaddie doing the trade run and scrolling the camera again to order him to move again (which takes like thirty seconds to one minute, due to the loading times involved) is sapping my enjoyment of the game.

It's kinda like the X space simulation series. Trade is automated once I figure out a trade route. I don't need to trudge out the trade route every single time I need more money. I rather spend my time dogfighting.

Sydious wrote: Rather than altering the way the game sorts those aspects why not try and create a mod that allows you to select a town on the map to travel to. Sort of like a fast travel option, but it makes your toon trek it without havint to keep tellin them to move by clicking on the screen.

I dunno, it sounds like a far easier job to reenable buildings instead of modding in a fast-travel option. I mean, I'm kinda new to this whole forgotten construction set thing, and that's why I'm asking for advice on how to accomplish a specific function, while detailing what I am currently doing to accomplish said function. Gee if it's so easy someone else would have done it by now, as it sounds like something that everyone would want.

And to explain why I'm kinda ornery in my current post right now, well, I don't like it when other people told me how I should play a game, or that I should deal with it. I have a problem here, and I'm trying to fix it. I need help to do it, and that's why I'm asking for advice.

This comes a bit late since I haven't been on the forums in a while, but to get the lower end buildings constructable after you have researched higher end stuff you have to disable the ability to upgrade them. You have to edit the building, and where it has "Upgrades to" you have to remove it.

This makes it so you can build them even after researching higher end buildings. The down side is you can no longer upgrade the building to the next level, you have to destroy and rebuild it.

If you just wanted to allow baseline buildings you could remove their upgrade linkage and leave the upgrade from level 2 to 3 and so on and just allow yourself to build level 1 and level whatever you have researched. But you would still have to tear down any level 1 buildings to put a higher level one up.

Paul wrote:This comes a bit late since I haven't been on the forums in a while, but to get the lower end buildings constructable after you have researched higher end stuff you have to disable the ability to upgrade them. You have to edit the building, and where it has "Upgrades to" you have to remove it.

This makes it so you can build them even after researching higher end buildings. The down side is you can no longer upgrade the building to the next level, you have to destroy and rebuild it.

If you just wanted to allow baseline buildings you could remove their upgrade linkage and leave the upgrade from level 2 to 3 and so on and just allow yourself to build level 1 and level whatever you have researched. But you would still have to tear down any level 1 buildings to put a higher level one up.

Recent patches have actually implemented a shinier, new Construction Panel that also includes structures made obsolete by researching more advanced technologies.