Gold need space in inventory

[Marcuss2]

I made a simple picture, system shud work like in Diablo 1 (if you played it)




Also: Added to suggestions list

[Santaissick]

We play with faction gold. Not personal gold. If that were the case your suggestion might work. But, at the moment, in Kenshi we use whole factions wealth.

[Finson]

Yeah, that would be weird with faction gold. Still, I completely agree that money needs to have a physical presence in Kenshi. Right now, it just sort of floats around in people's imaginations. I think there should be both individual and faction money. I think it's weird that you pay a guy 1500 kats to join you, and then it disappears. Your faction doesn't have it and he doesn't have it. It would obviously be silly if you paid someone money, just to get that money back immediately, but then, if he had the personal money, you'd just use it as faction money because you have complete control over him. Hmmm.... that seems like a tricky issue to solve, now that I think of it. In the ultimate in-game economy, it would be a problem for money to just disappear like that, but it would also be a problem for mercenary payments to be just a ridiculous formality. Most MMOs use money sinks like that, but those are an artificial solution, and I would hope Kenshi could avoid doing that.

Whew, you just opened a whole can of worms in my head. In a nutshell though, I agree with you Marcuss.

[Scotterius]

Eh, money is a funny thing. I would like to see it done all the way or not at all. Coins are seriously heavy. If I have $10 of dimes in my pockets I need a strong belt. Imagine the fortune needed for high end armor. This raises the need for paper money, institutions to back the paper money...and more. Then there are proplems changing denominations ...I dont know. I have rarely seen it done well. I do not like the Diablo method (because no incumbrance and denominations), but I could mod it out in a few minutes myself.

As it is abstracted, you dont have to worry about this element.

[EikuShizuma]

I don't think that having your money pile up in your inventory is a good idea. If there is no other effect to coins then representing your richness and using up inventory space I would kinda punish the player for being wealthy by reducing his inventoty space.

If represented physically why not give every char a dedicated "purse" inventory for valueables. I do like scotterius' idea of the money having weight so the purse would have limited space. Any excess money could be srored in the regular inventory and be counted towards a chars encumberanve rating. One could store his money in a special chest at home. This would make faction base raiding quite interesting as well.

Just my two cents

shizuma

[DrSalvador]

Personally I'd like a gold/silver/copper thing, if it were put in, though i know a lot of people dislike that kind of money system. but for kenshi it would fit, in my opinion.

As for money adding weight or inventory space? I don't think that would be a good idea. I understand the concept, but it's a game, lol. I wanna just get the money i get and not worry about if i can carry it, leave worrying about that to all the horse choppers you find on bandit bodies

[Santaissick]

I believe we have very realistic system at the moment. Faction has account in a bank and it keeps all money in there. Every squad member has debit card and uses money straight from factions account. Debit cards don't weight much.

[Blxz]

Yeah. Current system is awesome. Less unrequired micro is a good thing rather than more micro.

[jtgibson]

Actually, I'm leaning towards the side of having coins take up space, if for nothing more than the fact that you can loot coin off of bodies, and that factions would have to create treasure caravans and other means of transporting coin from where it is produced or accumulated (retail) to where it is demanded (military and labour). Military payrolls à la Pirates! would be par for the course here.

The richer you are, the juicier a target you become. A rich player character hauling sacks and sacks of coin would be heavily burdened and look like a piñata to any sand ninja. "I just chop it open and coins spill out! Heh!"

What I would also then recommend is that every soldier carries his or her own personal reserve of gold intended for his or her own use. When you hire a soldier, all of the money you paid him goes straight into his inventory -- so if he dies, you can get the money back. This, obviously, is held in poor regard by the other soldiers in your retinue, so personal wealth would be distinguished from wealth issued for transportation by being given a red background and "shellac" in whichever inventory space it is found in.

Personal wealth belonging to soldiers will then be vouched into banks whenever your retinue visits one, and can be spent on personal effects (the opportunity to do either increasing morale -- and if they have a chance to spend their earnings in a tavern or on women/their families, even moreso). When opening one of your soldiers' inventories, you can also choose to assign the item permanently, as a gift, in order to bolster morale.

Finally, soldiers who are carrying a lot of high value equipment that is NOT theirs, and who have a low morale score, would probably flee with the equipment. So if you are throwing your sacks of coin onto some untrustworthy new hiree for transport, you should surround him with loyal soldiers to ensure that he won't turn coat, or that if he does turn coat he meets a swift end. (Those bandits have to appear from somewhere, after all...)

Obviously this feature track would be long term, but starting with coin as a physical object would certainly not be a huge stretch. If the system proved to be too inconvenient in the short term, then it could be gutted before taking the extra steps to build up the surrounding gameplay (that's what an alpha is for, after all). Otherwise, I say go the extra mile: why do you think security and armoured car services are so necessary in reality?

[Finson]

I believe we have very realistic system at the moment. Faction has account in a bank and it keeps all money in there. Every squad member has debit card and uses money straight from factions account. Debit cards don't weight much.

But there isn't a bank and the money doesn't actually exist anywhere. I know you weren't being super serious, I'm just saying. Though I agree too, because when/if we do get banks, then there can be some debit/credit systems which could solve this problem. I think in the mean time, the money can just be numbers, but eventually, when it would fit better into the game, I'd like to see it actually exist concretely. Right now it probably would be pretty cumbersome.

Though, here's another thing (and it may just be an alpha thing), faction and personal accounts. If everyone is sharing the same money and equipment and general belongings, isn't that a bit cult-like? At best, it's an extremely eclectic form of society you're implying when you essentially have a base of members with no personal belongings whatsoever. It would be cool if you could do that in Kenshi, but it seems like the current system assumes a lot about these random mercenaries' compliance to your will. That's not really dealing with this topic though. Sorry. I might make a thread for that, or someone else can if you're into it.

[Scotterius]

Actually, I'm leaning towards the side of having coins take up space, if for nothing more than the fact that you can loot coin off of bodies...

How did this escape me, yes a great point! Payroll and treasure caravans are a great idea just in themselves (I am going to add them to the EVTPOP mod). These caravans would be carrying large amounts of pressed latinum* or what ever and could have entire back packs filled with loot.

Then you could take it to the bank (who dosent want to rob banks)...and ta da! Added to Faction reserve.Banks are something else that would add a lot of depth to Kenshi. There is a thread about that idea.



*watch that snarky tone, you know who you are.

[arthoz]

Diablo 1...good times that was...

I believe we have very realistic system at the moment. Faction has account in a bank and it keeps all money in there. Every squad member has debit card and uses money straight from factions account. Debit cards don't weight much.

Yes, there is an ancient form of credit/debit cards...they are called billed of exchange. Sort of a promissory note that you buy certain item in one town for certain amount of money and...just google for it, it's too long to explain but in short it contributed to the birth of the banking system. Put it into this game context, you put money in a faction owned bank and you get a certificate like paper money.

So you could do both have money takes up space and weight you down or use a bank account to buy stuff. Carrying around money means you could use it anywhere but if you are attacked and robbed, you could lose everything or a % of your money/stuff. Use a bill or paper money, your money is safe but an faction hostile against that bank would not accept it. Worse if some event you become enemy with the bank owning faction, your account is frozen unless you repair your relationship or assault the bank to retrieve your money.



On money types maybe we could follow along the system in Fallout New Vegas. The standard moneys are caps but there are also bank notes and denarius which are measured by the value of caps. So we may allow faction in kenshi to have their own money which have different valuation. You might even cause an imbalance in exchange, for example a poor faction is using platinum coins while a richer faction uses iridium coins. Suddenly you or someone else found a new source of iridium and starts mining it causing the value or iridium to drop. The poor faction now becomes richer and more powerful, able to buy better equips, build more outposts and recruit stronger soldiers.

Similar lesson are seen from the Spanish gold, they've got more gold to spend but in long term the buying power of their gold dropped...again for simple explaination watch "Crash Course History" in youtube. You could play around with politics, war and market price by flooding the market with the material of exchange or making it scarce.



As for owning banks and/or investing in banks, lets take this further why not the ability to also invest in busines and caravans. Someone already suggested on investing in caravans, it's sounds good. But when investing in banks meaning you are investing in lots of caravans and businesses. Meaning first there should be a min amount to start investing and it must quite high. Second you might not lose all your investment because we could base it to the amount of caravans that made it safely to their destination.

Help in reducing bandits and war means more safe caravans and more profits for you. More caravan reaching the city, the more it's prosperity value increases also means more profits for you. Added to this also to the function of farmers sending produce to city and all the more reason either to help maintain peace or destroy it.

You could say that investing with a faction or it's bank is investing in it's own territory development. The returns are from cuts from the profits or taxation. It could could also be another dynamic method to indirectly affect a faction strength and politics. A strong and rich faction would attract war from it's poorer neighbour, while economic demand will force factions that are constantly at war to decide for a temporary peace or ceasefire.