Rework the Thieving Mechanism

[seularts]

Seriously, being a Thief in this game is a huge exploit that makes the game feel easy mode. First of all please remove the possibility to steal expensive or high gear armor and weapons, because it defeats the purpose of researching, smithing and exploring for this stuff.

Second of all, make some sort of alarms and puzzles when unlocking chests and safes. Being able to steal everything in under 30 minutes is not fun. Make thieving a challenging art not a click fest.

Third, make stolen items stay stolen and not resettable in their containers. Those poor ninja thieves in the bars will lose their jobs. You can also make them sell better thieving gear and picks for unlocking various locks. Maybe even ropes to climb buildings and avoid the front door.

Make different floor materials. For example, if I walk on wood there would be a chance it will squeak if I carry too many items and it will wake the guards/owner.

Make the trading distance 1 meter. I can't stress enough how much of an exploit this is. Leaving an animal outside the building and stuffing things onto him from the inside is lame. This will make players invest in a squad of thieves to work from the inside to help each other carry the stuff. Maybe even cooperate to open complex puzzle safes.

For a desolated world these traders have a lot of stuff. I believe their items should be scarce to provoke the player to trade more between cities and to produce more items/resources for those cities as well. While we are on this matter, make faction relations grow based on trade.

One other important thing: make the all doors automatically close after 30 seconds, unless you deliberately set them to stay open via button option of your own buildings. This will make good thieves trap if they run out of time and they have to rush out. They will also have to unlock it from the inside. This, of course, would happen during night time.

With all the power these cities have, why not invent a buildable transportation method between them? Like a small train, where you have to speak with the leaders of the cities to get permission to build the tracks between them and their neighbors. So many possibilities here.

Make harsh punishments for thieves. If a thief is caught 2 times by the same nation, they will cut an arm/leg. The 3rd time they will hang you or boil you to death. This will make thieves careful about their decisions where to strike. There could also be a cool down timer to reset the chances (100 days).

Also, would be nice to have to pickpocket for some extra cats and various small/cheap items/food people carry.

Being in the thieves guild should also unlock new benefits, such as escape routes in the city that will be unlocked once you become more renowned with the thieves faction. I also think that getting into a city should be based on reputation with a faction. The more reputation you get, the further into the city you are allowed by guards. Or in the case of the thieves, there could be hidden entrances they can find into a dangerous area of the city, where they will be killed on sight for trespassing at night (at day it would be suicide).

Thieving can come in handy into ruins as well. Complex puzzles will be easier to unlock by a skilled thief and the spiders won't trigger to kill him/her. A good way to sneak past them is to climb the ceiling with special equipment. Of course, since they are spiders they can chase you on the ceiling as well if they detect you.

Would be nice to have night goggles to see in the dark and be able to turn off lights or torches. And a thief needs a blackjack to knock out guards near expensive loot/safes. Maybe even throw a cat/coin on the floor to distract a nearby NPC (45 seconds cooldown). Who doesn't go for free money on the ground!?

The shadow system needs more work. I mean guards can wake up and see me in total darkness even when I don't move, I think that is a bit too much. Of course, if the moonlight comes out of the clouds outside and makes more light, then I would agree with this logic.

There is a lot to process here, but thieving is not an easy thing to achieve and should never be shallow. Learn from the best and make the impossible -> possible today

[Chinsei]

Seriously, being a Thief in this game is a huge exploit that makes the game feel easy mode. First of all please remove the possibility to steal expensive or high gear armor and weapons, because it defeats the purpose of researching, smithing and exploring for this stuff.

Second of all, make some sort of alarms and puzzles when unlocking chests and safes. Being able to steal everything in under 30 minutes is not fun. Make thieving a challenging art not a click fest.

Third, make stolen items stay stolen and not resettable in their containers. Those poor ninja thieves in the bars will lose their jobs. You can also make them sell better thieving gear and picks for unlocking various locks. Maybe even ropes to climb buildings and avoid the front door.

Make different floor materials. For example, if I walk on wood there would be a chance it will squeak if I carry too many items and it will wake the guards/owner.

Make the trading distance 1 meter. I can't stress enough how much of an exploit this is. Leaving an animal outside the building and stuffing things onto him from the inside is lame. This will make players invest in a squad of thieves to work from the inside to help each other carry the stuff. Maybe even cooperate to open complex puzzle safes.

For a desolated world these traders have a lot of stuff. I believe their items should be scarce to provoke the player to trade more between cities and to produce more items/resources for those cities as well. While we are on this matter, make faction relations grow based on trade.

One other important thing: make the all doors automatically close after 30 seconds, unless you deliberately set them to stay open via button option of your own buildings. This will make good thieves trap if they run out of time and they have to rush out. They will also have to unlock it from the inside. This, of course, would happen during night time.

With all the power these cities have, why not invent a buildable transportation method between them? Like a small train, where you have to speak with the leaders of the cities to get permission to build the tracks between them and their neighbors. So many possibilities here.

Make harsh punishments for thieves. If a thief is caught 2 times by the same nation, they will cut an arm/leg. The 3rd time they will hang you or boil you to death. This will make thieves careful about their decisions where to strike. There could also be a cool down timer to reset the chances (100 days).

Also, would be nice to have to pickpocket for some extra cats and various small/cheap items/food people carry.

Being in the thieves guild should also unlock new benefits, such as escape routes in the city that will be unlocked once you become more renowned with the thieves faction. I also think that getting into a city should be based on reputation with a faction. The more reputation you get, the further into the city you are allowed by guards. Or in the case of the thieves, there could be hidden entrances they can find into a dangerous area of the city, where they will be killed on sight for trespassing at night (at day it would be suicide).

Thieving can come in handy into ruins as well. Complex puzzles will be easier to unlock by a skilled thief and the spiders won't trigger to kill him/her. A good way to sneak past them is to climb the ceiling with special equipment. Of course, since they are spiders they can chase you on the ceiling as well if they detect you.

Would be nice to have night goggles to see in the dark and be able to turn off lights or torches. And a thief needs a blackjack to knock out guards near expensive loot/safes. Maybe even throw a cat/coin on the floor to distract a nearby NPC (45 seconds cooldown). Who doesn't go for free money on the ground!?

The shadow system needs more work. I mean guards can wake up and see me in total darkness even when I don't move, I think that is a bit too much. Of course, if the moonlight comes out of the clouds outside and makes more light, then I would agree with this logic.

There is a lot to process here, but thieving is not an easy thing to achieve and should never be shallow. Learn from the best and make the impossible -> possible today

Minus the train...you basically just described the Elder Scrolls Online.

and...

its a steam punk world where people are basically gathering and building using scrap. after what seems to be some world ending disaster.

[Malum Tenebris]

I agree with what you said. Thieving is far too easy.

However, there's no way they are going to implement everything you said. Anyway, what they should do is the addition of thieving supplies and making prison more punishing. Right now prison is kind of a joke, with decent stealth and thieving you can pretty much break out whenever you want get your stuff then outrun them out of town and wait for the bounty to go away. Unless you slaughtered the whole town the bounty shouldn't be that high and should go away pretty quickly.

If they add mandatory equipment for thieves and make prison more punishing.


P.S. Would also be a pretty sick idea(or mod) to add executions to prisons; would make you think twice before taking that shiny piece of armor.

[seularts]

One last thing I forgot to add: devs should really fix NPC's vision. They can see through freaking walls/floors/ceilings when you sneak or when you steal something. I mean walls are barely a barrier in this game. Let's say that maybe they might have heard you while you browse through their selection of loot, they should at least investigate the noises not jump at you and chase you to a fight instantly.

[seularts]

Seriously, being a Thief in this game is a huge exploit that makes the game feel easy mode. First of all please remove the possibility to steal expensive or high gear armor and weapons, because it defeats the purpose of researching, smithing and exploring for this stuff.

Second of all, make some sort of alarms and puzzles when unlocking chests and safes. Being able to steal everything in under 30 minutes is not fun. Make thieving a challenging art not a click fest.

Third, make stolen items stay stolen and not resettable in their containers. Those poor ninja thieves in the bars will lose their jobs. You can also make them sell better thieving gear and picks for unlocking various locks. Maybe even ropes to climb buildings and avoid the front door.

Make different floor materials. For example, if I walk on wood there would be a chance it will squeak if I carry too many items and it will wake the guards/owner.

Make the trading distance 1 meter. I can't stress enough how much of an exploit this is. Leaving an animal outside the building and stuffing things onto him from the inside is lame. This will make players invest in a squad of thieves to work from the inside to help each other carry the stuff. Maybe even cooperate to open complex puzzle safes.

For a desolated world these traders have a lot of stuff. I believe their items should be scarce to provoke the player to trade more between cities and to produce more items/resources for those cities as well. While we are on this matter, make faction relations grow based on trade.

One other important thing: make the all doors automatically close after 30 seconds, unless you deliberately set them to stay open via button option of your own buildings. This will make good thieves trap if they run out of time and they have to rush out. They will also have to unlock it from the inside. This, of course, would happen during night time.

With all the power these cities have, why not invent a buildable transportation method between them? Like a small train, where you have to speak with the leaders of the cities to get permission to build the tracks between them and their neighbors. So many possibilities here.

Make harsh punishments for thieves. If a thief is caught 2 times by the same nation, they will cut an arm/leg. The 3rd time they will hang you or boil you to death. This will make thieves careful about their decisions where to strike. There could also be a cool down timer to reset the chances (100 days).

Also, would be nice to have to pickpocket for some extra cats and various small/cheap items/food people carry.

Being in the thieves guild should also unlock new benefits, such as escape routes in the city that will be unlocked once you become more renowned with the thieves faction. I also think that getting into a city should be based on reputation with a faction. The more reputation you get, the further into the city you are allowed by guards. Or in the case of the thieves, there could be hidden entrances they can find into a dangerous area of the city, where they will be killed on sight for trespassing at night (at day it would be suicide).

Thieving can come in handy into ruins as well. Complex puzzles will be easier to unlock by a skilled thief and the spiders won't trigger to kill him/her. A good way to sneak past them is to climb the ceiling with special equipment. Of course, since they are spiders they can chase you on the ceiling as well if they detect you.

Would be nice to have night goggles to see in the dark and be able to turn off lights or torches. And a thief needs a blackjack to knock out guards near expensive loot/safes. Maybe even throw a cat/coin on the floor to distract a nearby NPC (45 seconds cooldown). Who doesn't go for free money on the ground!?

The shadow system needs more work. I mean guards can wake up and see me in total darkness even when I don't move, I think that is a bit too much. Of course, if the moonlight comes out of the clouds outside and makes more light, then I would agree with this logic.

There is a lot to process here, but thieving is not an easy thing to achieve and should never be shallow. Learn from the best and make the impossible -> possible today

Minus the train...you basically just described the Elder Scrolls Online.

and...

its a steam punk world where people are basically gathering and building using scrap. after what seems to be some world ending disaster.

ESO also has Steam Punk included in their game if you consider the Dwemer Ruins.

[seularts]

I agree with what you said. Thieving is far too easy.

However, there's no way they are going to implement everything you said. Anyway, what they should do is the addition of thieving supplies and making prison more punishing. Right now prison is kind of a joke, with decent stealth and thieving you can pretty much break out whenever you want get your stuff then outrun them out of town and wait for the bounty to go away. Unless you slaughtered the whole town the bounty shouldn't be that high and should go away pretty quickly.

If they add mandatory equipment for thieves and make prison more punishing.


P.S. Would also be a pretty sick idea(or mod) to add executions to prisons; would make you think twice before taking that shiny piece of armor.

If they make at least 25% of what I said, it's still going to make thieving more interesting than it is now. You are right about the cages tho. But I think they started to implement better mechanics there since the Bugmaster can't be broken or bailed out of his cage anymore, and he has a life sentence when you click him inside.

[Chinsei]

Kenshi isn't ESO. its not intended to be an MMORPG.

if they introduced most of what you said it wouldn't really be unique anymore.

while thievery and assassination could use more detail and having them a little harder and more realistic in some instances would be nice.

it doesn't need minigames or special abilities. the complexity should be in managing to accomplish what you want. not in how its done.

[seularts]

Kenshi isn't ESO. its not intended to be an MMORPG.

if they introduced most of what you said it wouldn't really be unique anymore.

while thievery and assassination could use more detail and having them a little harder and more realistic in some instances would be nice.

it doesn't need minigames or special abilities. the complexity should be in managing to accomplish what you want. not in how its done.

I never said it should be an MMORPG. I only suggested the game would be smarter and more challenging. I can give you a ton of great survival/sandbox single player games that made this work for them. Take Fallout for example. It always found ways to keep you immersed in the game and to try to diversify your methods. Or look at how Don't Starve achieved results through it's unique and complex mechanics. Again, I only offered suggestions.. people can be constructive and find new ways to improve the game.

If a game is more complex that means it offers you options, but that doesn't mean you have to do everything available. Just play the way you feel comfortable. Having puzzles is just an alternative to solving a situation. As you have seen you can either pick a door or you can use brute force to open it, but both ways get you to the same result - in a different time span and with different consequences.

[Sol Lignum]

Would be nice to see some tools with limited charges required for lockpicking, like various sets of lockpicks that would be lootable or craftable and have charges and slight bonuses, just like medkits. And without those tools picking would be either very hard or downright impossible.

Maybe more secured prisons, with guards frequently checking the lock condition, and adding complexity or extra bounty if pick is detected.

That would be neat. Aside of that i don't see much point in thieving, in the first place, since setting your production in line with the junk traders sell would require as much time as training a thief who can steal it, i believe. So it's only a matter of choice: loot, steal or produce.

I can also say that with production levels maximised, game becomes quite easy, because everything could be produced, and quality of homemade gear would greatly outstand that of NPC's, and money is of no need anymore.

So i'd say that it's a sort of reincarnation of RPG-decision-rule of old, and it stands here as: "Steal someone's stuff for yourself, Make your own stuff, or Kill someone and make their stuff yours. Either of three would do, and all three are comparably challenging"

[vicwiz007]

All they need to do is take away high end gear from being lootable as you said. Simplest and best solution that wont take away from development of other cool features.

I dont know why this was allowed, because it lets you get top end gear with no effort and at a really low level.

[Messala]

this "may" be balanced by the fact that if you are caught stealing, you not only go through jail time, but that store is no longer available to trade with permanently by any of your squadies.

[seularts]

You want to tell me people won't be tempted to reload the game if they are caught stealing to avoid losing access to that store!?

[pigiron]

A simpler approach to some of these (time saving development wise):

Add one more guard than there are beds to the shop. This means one guard will always be awake at night, forcing you to route around him. For added complexity, have him change locations every hour. This opens windows of opportunity for the thief, but also adds time pressure.

A not so simple, but nice to have:

Make the stolen tag semi-permanent. Removable at the crafting station- i.e. weapon stolen tags removed at weaponcrafter, etc. Make the progress bar work like lockpicking (dependent on craft skill, retries take more time just like picking a lock). Gain a small amount of craft xp based on the weapon's grade. Higher grade weapons take more time, and are more difficult to remove stolen tag. So, if you manage to nick a specialist grade nodachi and you can only craft rusted junk... Tough luck, pal. Stolen gear that has the stolen tag removed can then be re-sold like new again, same as laundering your goods through a storage box works now.

[Shidan]

Add one more guard than there are beds to the shop. This means one guard will always be awake at night, forcing you to route around him. For added complexity, have him change locations every hour. This opens windows of opportunity for the thief, but also adds time pressure.

This one is very unlikely to happen. Several months ago the game was actually like this. Almost every store had a guard or two up all night because there were not enough beds. Eventually the devs added more beds to change that. So they clearly didn't want that.

[pigiron]

Might want to check the number of guards/beds in the snailhouse shops- World's End has a mismatch still, in the backpack trader (one fewer bed than guards). If this is an immersion breaking thing, that's quite understandable. And if thievery is too easy for some, we can probably mod something like that in, for those who want a tougher challenge.

[lucidmadness]

I thought it was nice to be able to steal food at the beginning of my current game (started a new one when hunger/new map was put in). It also made me think about how easy stealing was before modern technology. They don't have video cameras or sensors in this game (yet), so of course it will be easier compared.