More attack slots!

[Grimmrok]

The game should have more attack slots.
Currently it feels too... Weird, per say. Because even when it's group combat, a 1 vs many situation, it's still technically a 1 vs 1 fight, as everyone takes turns attacking one at a time, as if they were in a movie with a bad combat scene where every enemy attacks alone so the protagonist can easily beat them all up.

I think the golden number is 3 slots, as 3 people can have enough space for their attacks without "realistically" interfering with each other's attack.
Why 3, instead of 5, some may ask?
That would work if every guy had a katana, something short and easy to maneuver, but imagine having 5 guys attacking 1 person all at the same time... with planks.
Maybe if each weapon type could have a different number of attack slots, but I don't know how easy (or hard) that would be to pull off, so let's just go for the golden number 3 (though I wouldn't mind that alternative. It would surely put a whole new depth into the game).

A good way to implement this would be to make it modifiable in advanced options when starting a new game or importing an existing save file, with 3 being the default.

1 slot is just too easy to duel your way out of a situation where you're heavily outnumbered, while also very frustrating when you outnumber an enemy and he gets to duel his way out.
Increasing the attack slots gives your more reason to avoid fights where you're outnumbered early on, while later on being able to bring out the full potential of your army.

[Sol Lignum]

While your request holds certain amount of water, there still is one thing to consider.

When 3 are attacking 1, 3 still can't always engage all at the same time. Maybe position of a victim isn't quite right, maybe comrade's sword is on the way, maybe timing is slightly off, etcetera, etcetera. I don't think anything has changed dramatically over the last 10-15 updates - that's the last time i played - but back then the situations when several diffirent combatants would engage on a victim when the moment is right were quite common. Say, swarm of bandits attacks Bill. Bill makes his move and hits the Bandit1. While Bill is recovering, Bandit2 hits him from the back, staggering Bill, then Bandit3 hits him from the side, while he's still wobbling, by the time Bandit1 is recovered and gives Bill another hit. To me it seems quite realistic.

So, yeah, they're sort of waiting, but diffirently: not untill Bill kills one of them, but untill he's open. I can't see it as a Bill's advantage when forces are comparable. Sure, when you're all meitou and masterwork and hungries decide to take their chances - it's massacre, but otherwise it seems more or less fine.

Maybe i'm just playing wrong, or missing something?

[bk3000]

Yeah I also think 3 feels like the right number. You have a balance between the importance of skills and the importance of numbers. While this is easy to mod, 1 seems very odd for a vanilla value. You'd almost think that 1 slot would be the mod - something called "single player mode" or something.

I think this thread is more so a gameplay issue rather than a feature request though.

[Ocram]

Remember that once you develop your characters, a little number of npc can still fight you, increasing the attack slots destroys even more the late game unbalance, imo. But there's no doubt 1 is kinda a strange number, that just extends fights time for seemingly no reasons. I use 2, to compensate the fact that you scale while npcs don't.

[bk3000]

Remember that once you develop your characters, a little number of npc can still fight you, increasing the attack slots destroys even more the late game unbalance, imo. But there's no doubt 1 is kinda a strange number, that just extends fights time for seemingly no reasons. I use 2, to compensate the fact that you scale while npcs don't.

I don't think it destroys late game balance. It is already broken - your people are simply going to become too powerful and no number of enemies will be of any consequence. More (lower skilled) enemies won't change the outcome of a fight no matter what, but merely delay the inevitable. That's broken.

IMO more attack slots improves this balance. It will somewhat stop you from winning fights you probably have no business winning. Like sure... you're skilled now but if you try to solo a whole town then you're probably going to loose. You might be fast, but attacks are coming in from all directions and rapidly so you won't be blocking everything, and it turn it makes it harder to get your attacks off. Even fodder becomes something of a threat... at least more so than it was.

More attack slots only makes combat easier when YOU are the ones out-numbering your opponents. I think for most the game the opposite will be the case, and if you have the squad size sliders up then even more so. To see what I mean, take a fairly strong solo character and go assault something like a town at 1x but don't save. Set it to 5x and load the same save, assault the same town. See how that turns out for you... probably not so well. So this is a question of balancing the advantage of afforded by skill versus the advantage of numeric superiority.

Although you probably already know, it should be noted that attack slots affect the Player Characters the same as it affects NPCs. The higher this is set, the more being outnumbered is going to suck. That's just more realistic and thus better for immersion, but I also think it makes for better gameplay too.

[Grimmrok]

While your request holds certain amount of water, there still is one thing to consider.

When 3 are attacking 1, 3 still can't always engage all at the same time. Maybe position of a victim isn't quite right, maybe comrade's sword is on the way, maybe timing is slightly off, etcetera, etcetera. I don't think anything has changed dramatically over the last 10-15 updates - that's the last time i played - but back then the situations when several diffirent combatants would engage on a victim when the moment is right were quite common. Say, swarm of bandits attacks Bill. Bill makes his move and hits the Bandit1. While Bill is recovering, Bandit2 hits him from the back, staggering Bill, then Bandit3 hits him from the side, while he's still wobbling, by the time Bandit1 is recovered and gives Bill another hit. To me it seems quite realistic.

So, yeah, they're sort of waiting, but diffirently: not untill Bill kills one of them, but untill he's open. I can't see it as a Bill's advantage when forces are comparable. Sure, when you're all meitou and masterwork and hungries decide to take their chances - it's massacre, but otherwise it seems more or less fine.

Maybe i'm just playing wrong, or missing something?

It doesn't matter how many attack slots there are, everyone attacks only when they can.
That is when they are in reach of the opponent and not busy blocking an incoming attack.
The thing is when it's x1 everyone else is forced to wait and take turns attacking the target, instead of all of them descending their blades on the target at the same time when possible.
And I believe x3 to be the golden number instead of x5 exactly because of, for example, allies blades being on the way, or even the cleave from the strike being blocked by your allies bodies.

Remember that once you develop your characters, a little number of npc can still fight you, increasing the attack slots destroys even more the late game unbalance, imo. But there's no doubt 1 is kinda a strange number, that just extends fights time for seemingly no reasons. I use 2, to compensate the fact that you scale while npcs don't.

When you're maxed out on everything, there is pretty much no NPC that can defeat you.
At the very least with this if you're heavily outnumbered then at least the NPC will have a chance.
But either way I tend to just start a new game when I reach the point where I feel like it's too easy/boring.

I think this thread is more so a gameplay issue rather than a feature request though.

I don't know, sometimes that line is too thin.
If the forum mods think that that's the case, then by all means they should transfer the post there, and I apologize for causing them extra trouble.

[lucidmadness]

Maybe we should wait until mass combat is a trainable skill? Also right now (after using mods) the attack slot going to from 1 to 3 can make people fight like idiots.

If you search "attack slots" in the steam workshop there are a few to pick from for now.

[swillo]

I use 4 as I figure one from each direction. if you just let your guys charge in then it really doesn't seem to make a big difference. but If you actually position your guys during the fight then can mean surrounding a stronger opponent and beating him down with numbers. I have also found that this makes groups like the hungry bandits and the starving vagrants more dangerous as they tend to rely on numbers. Even my stronger fighters tend to take a few shots from them in a fight.