Lo-Fi Games

Now i know the new lands map is coming out and its going to be bigger and more diverse than the current desert map. However the gaming industry is going to be going through a huge changesoon which could make sandbox gaming old news. I just gonna go straight to the point and say that kenshi is gonna need to include procedurally generation in order to compete with the new era of video games and to reach its potential. Now for why I think this is simply that with games like no mans sky and star citizen coming out with huge procedurally generated universes with unique items and animals, gamers (like myself) are going to become spoiled with the idea that our experience can be unique and endless. This means that any sandbox game that is not procedurally generated is just not going to give the experience that most gamers have come to expect. Now this has not happened yet but with the relaease of no mans sky I predict it will and it will cause that countless hours of art going into sandbox games to go to waste. Procedural generation I predict will give indie developers like hello games the chance to compete with AAA companies who have the manpower and money. But obviously I dont think procedural generation is something easy that could just be added because you simply want it , your going to have to work for it. And it hard to ask someone to work that hard for something you want but in this case i think kenshi needs this to become a quality game. Right now kenshi is just a collection of good ideas that need time to be implemented. However without an endless amount of gameplay features, kenshi will never be able to compete with procedurally generated worlds which offer gamers unique and endless exploration. Now that it has become a fact that indie developers can make this work, they could use this to compete with the endless amount of features AAA games can offer. Honestly kenshi will take years and years just to get to the point where the game can be played without feeling a lose of purpose or challenge. But with a procedurally generated world kenshi will always feel as if their are things still left for you to do. Without this the game will feel to everybody that it ends at some point.

at first i was not going to write this because i did not think it would be possible however now i realize that not only is it possible but it would fit perfectly if done right. The reason is that in kenshi the world does not need to be as diverse as different planets in a universe. Just like the towns in the current game it just needs to be slightly different to keep the players immersion in the game. A procedurally generated world the size of earth would follow the games mood with the player being a small person whitin an immense world. To make a name for yourself in a video game the size of earth would not only be much more rewarding but will be challenging. This is because not only can the map be procedurally geneerated but so can factions and weapons and races and animals etc. Thhe world can be split into regions where certain things are found lfor example things like collesiuems may be only found in one region while castles and monarchy and found in another region. Now again this is alot easier said than done but if your willing to put 8 years in devloping a game i dont see what is so wrong with being even more ambitious along the way. Now i realize that if this were to be done it would meen having to create your own engine and all sorts of work and money, but honestly the gaming world is going to go through a big change until in a couple of years procedural generation will be the norm and indie companies will go from rags to riches like in the old days. AA companies will no longer own the market in terms of quality of games. And this game kenshi with such a great game design can be one of games that stands at the top in the new generation.

Now again I do realize that I do not know how procedural generation works so i cant speak on how much time it should take, how much money it would take, and how difficult it is. However I believe its still possible as long as your willing to make it work. Honestlly i myself would be willing to learn how procedural generation worked if i wasnt so shitting in math!

procedurally generated worlds and maps have been around for a very long time. they havnt exactly made sandbox games obsolete. Elder Scrolls 2 is a primary example.

maybe in Kenshi 2 if its planed for after this one is done. maybe. dont know what the dev has planed for after Kenshi just that he has ideas.

as a gamer for 30 plus years. i go after game play more then anyhting else. a static game can have tons of things that a procedurally generated one might not.

7 days to die kinda has that procedurally generated option. with random maps. i accualy prefere the standered defualt map/ Zed spawns to the random generated one's. accualy i realy disliked the random one. everyhting was to random. even if the map was way larger. the defualt static map/items/spawns was much more fun and enjoyable.

Procedurally generated maps, are a short cut.

The kenshi map, will be 870 square kilometers, or over 400 square miles. So big, that all the bethesda games since morrowind will fit in it, with room to spare.

at that size, there will be plenty of exploration to do, that a procedurally generated map is unnecessary.

Now, if this was like minecraft, then yes then a procedurally generated map would be an advantage. I have been playing savage lands lately, and while i love that game, it needs work on its resources. That game would have benefited better from a procedurally generated map.

I would say that Kenshi should run with the map they are building. I eagerly await it. In no way do I think it should be thrown away!

Procedurally generated maps with procedurally generated towns/factions/quests etc - if it was decided to be worth it to code - could be offered as an import option (obviously this means no buildings import) along side the main map.

As an example to how this could work, Planet Explorers has a preset built map for Story Mode, and procedural generation for Adventure Mode. Planet Explorers doesn't feature importing from one game to another like Kenshi, but Kenshi could import the squad and research between the two modes just the same as it does now (obviously buildings won't transfer over).

I mainly thinking for the far future. Of course right now im not trying to say they should get rid of a map I havent even seen yet, but for the future they MAY have to. I guess im just worried that with them taking a long time to add important features to the game, it may help to have procedurally generated combat physics, weapons, events etc. to give the game the exitement and variety it could have.

But maybe we may get many of the features we need from the new lands update. Im not expecting the game to become a life simulation but procedural generation could help it acheive the same unpredictability and endless opportunities we have in real life.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the new map has to offer.
I'm not looking for the map to be generated, just some events or quests.
Randomly placed bandit caches or other type similar things would add more adventure options.

These can be loaded according to the different areas of the map.
Just like the beak things and wolf lairs are now.

I disagree completely. I would not be opposed to generated town locations, factions, and the like, but a procedurally generated world will always lack the ingenuity of intellectual design. Manually designed worlds will always be more scenic and detailed than any procedurally generated ones. As amazing as it would be to have programming that could procedurally generate patterns, consistency, and intelligent placement, I don't think something like that is going to exist for a very long time. I am aware of what no man's sky is, and I can tell you now it's not going to be as "amazing" as you might think. Procedural generation is more of a tossed salad than anything else, and that is not that appealing in design as manual design... Atleast for me..

bk3000 wrote: As an example to how this could work, Planet Explorers has a preset built map for Story Mode, and procedural generation for Adventure Mode.

Yes, this is a good example of a game that does both procedural generation, as well as a fixed map. The fixed map is very small, only an island. But the interesting thing is, a vast amount of people have been begging for them to allow adventure mode play in that fixed storymap, simply because the design outclasses the procedural generation. It's just so much nicer.

If you do not care about scenery, or how beautiful things are, or how well organized and "fitting" things go together, then sure, procedural will do you fine.. But if you're more involved in the world, procedural generation can never beat manual design.

ah yes, planet explorers... I have not played that game, and will not, until they bring in armor ISOs.

what is nice about algorithms, is infinite exploration and resources.

the down side, is that the maps are stupid.

Look at minecraft. Desert next to swamp next to tundra next to ocean.

It makes no sense what so ever.

Now, one of the reasons why procedurally generated maps are so awesome, is if the dev does not have the time or resources to make a huge map, or the game is going to be multiplayer.

A big problem with savage lands, one that kills the multiplayer, is if i know where all the good stuff is at, i can just run to it, collect it, and blam, unfair advantage. The good news, is that savage lands has no map, and the compass is hard to use, so navigating is very difficult.

Kenshi is not multiplayer, and the map is going to be outstandingly big. So we will have plenty of exploration that we can do.

Im not sure how relaible this is but on the kenshi final page on trello theirs a new person named nat who im guessing lo fi games hired. And it seems he has been given the job of working on many features including lore(sexism,racism,nobels,diet,education,love,religion,competition), bounty hunters,assassins, escapes (jail, slave camps, cannibals), even memories etc. Honestly if these things actually get into the game this may be the only game i ever need!

thats Natalie and he is a she. her Lo-Fi screen name is Koomatzu and is Chris's ( Capt Deathbeard ) Sister.
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yeah I found out later on. But thanks anyway