Lo-Fi Games

Just a thought that I think should be considered.

Why not add these to the game and give slightly different animations/effects.

Such as an Axe is an in-between of a Cleaver and Katana - And a Hammer is a Cleaver+.

This could possibly be done simply through modding, of course, but it'd be really neat to see Paladins walking around with Warhammers and such, Bandits with Axes.

one of the descriptions for hackers, now includes "Axes" so i think they'll eventually be added. given that mining nodes are around i assume eventually they might add in the ability to start chopping up trees to get wood. hopefully to have more diversity in buildings an stuff.

though fighting with an axe, or a hammer against a sword or Axe vs Hammer would be quite different from sword vs sword. so it might be awhile because animation can get expensive.

Chinsei wrote:one of the descriptions for hackers, now includes "Axes" so i think they'll eventually be added. given that mining nodes are around i assume eventually they might add in the ability to start chopping up trees to get wood. hopefully to have more diversity in buildings an stuff.

though fighting with an axe, or a hammer against a sword or Axe vs Hammer would be quite different from sword vs sword. so it might be awhile because animation can get expensive.

That is a very valid point and I am fine with it being on the back burner until all bugs have been scrubbed clean. I just like the idea of the aesthetic and perhaps how certain weapons would trump each other or show off strengthened and effects,

As far as I can see it, the Axe would be quite slow and have a strong chance of extensive cut damage as well as stun. - Where as the Hammer would be very slow and powerful and stun quite often.

Axes weren't always slow. I've always found that preconception annoying in games. Axes tended to go through armour that would stop a sword, as well as hack apart wooden shields. The size of the axe is what determined the speed, and Viking warriors often had handaxes swinging as fast as any sword.

Berzerker Jay wrote:Axes weren't always slow. I've always found that preconception annoying in games. Axes tended to go through armour that would stop a sword, as well as hack apart wooden shields. The size of the axe is what determined the speed, and Viking warriors often had handaxes swinging as fast as any sword.

Though without shields, fighting with an axe against a sword can be extremely disadvantageous. while axes might be great for chopping things up, or off as the case may be.

Swords tend to have range and flexibility on Axes. not to mention axe handles traditionally (not always) are wooden so a proper cut would have the Axe head cut off in alot of scenarios.

After all Vikings used shields, axes and swords. an axe and a shield work well together but a hand axe on its own against a swprd would more often then not end poorly for the guy holding te axe. it might not always an would obviously depend on numerous factors such as the skill of those involved. the ability for both to evade blows with "dodging" an the type of axe an stuff but i think as a general rule of thumb axes would lose.

with that said i'd also love to have spears added but i believe at some point it was stated that spears won't be a thing

but hopefully as time goes on that'll change Axes i hope get added mostly because i want more diverist in construction materials . wooden shacks without having to buy building materials would be nice. nails , plaster, windows/plexi glass but thatx another topic.

Axes, Pick axes, "Hoes" , Sickles, Scythes , and various other tools being added to expand on both the weapons an the 'jobs' available would be nice.

I wonder if there's any chance they'll combine certain stat weapons into say,

One-Handed (One handed axes, knives, shivs, katanas, and etc.) ++Bleed, +Stun.
Two-Handed (Warhammer, Battle-Axe, Claymore, and etc.) +Bleed, ++Stun.

And then leave Martial Arts as a Hand-to-Hand method of fighting that'll be at a great disadvantage towards those armed with weapons until at very high skill levels in which their blows have a lot of stuns.

A lot of this is just conjecture, but who knows.

I'd love to see shields with One-Handers, variants of Spears that would work as a Shield-Combo, a Two-Hander, or a Ranged Throwing Weapon.

(Could make having a secondary weapon quite useful, if ranged becomes a pretty fixed up feature)

Espa wrote:I wonder if there's any chance they'll combine certain stat weapons into say,

One-Handed (One handed axes, knives, shivs, katanas, and etc.) ++Bleed, +Stun.
Two-Handed (Warhammer, Battle-Axe, Claymore, and etc.) +Bleed, ++Stun.

And then leave Martial Arts as a Hand-to-Hand method of fighting that'll be at a great disadvantage towards those armed with weapons until at very high skill levels in which their blows have a lot of stuns.

A lot of this is just conjecture, but who knows.

I'd love to see shields with One-Handers, variants of Spears that would work as a Shield-Combo, a Two-Hander, or a Ranged Throwing Weapon.

(Could make having a secondary weapon quite useful, if ranged becomes a pretty fixed up feature)

so far i believe the standing is, no shields of any kind.

i'm more of a Katana'Wakizashi type. than a short/long sword an shield.

i think the main reason for no shields is simply because it would be somewhat harder to animate with the type of fighting thats currently going. since there trying to make the fighting animations realistic with actual blocking an stuff.

shields are confirmed as not being added.
its not a question of animations, its just that the Dev said he doesnt want it in his game. kinda like dual wielding.

I always found the No-Shields ruling to be a bit strange. . In no universe would someone NOT pick up a large piece of metal to defend themselves against incoming projectiles (Ranged), or fight with both a shorter lighter blade and shield as a personal preference. Instead they made Cleaver people tanks, which doesn't all the way make sense because its a slow blade that has a lot of integrity, yes, but doesn't help much when you need to move it quickly to block against a fast-paced weapon.

Meh.

Chinsei wrote:Though without shields, fighting with an axe against a sword can be extremely disadvantageous. while axes might be great for chopping things up, or off as the case may be.

Swords tend to have range and flexibility on Axes. not to mention axe handles traditionally (not always) are wooden so a proper cut would have the Axe head cut off in alot of scenarios.

After all Vikings used shields, axes and swords. an axe and a shield work well together but a hand axe on its own against a swprd would more often then not end poorly for the guy holding te axe. it might not always an would obviously depend on numerous factors such as the skill of those involved. the ability for both to evade blows with "dodging" an the type of axe an stuff but i think as a general rule of thumb axes would lose.

with that said i'd also love to have spears added but i believe at some point it was stated that spears won't be a thing

but hopefully as time goes on that'll change Axes i hope get added mostly because i want more diverist in construction materials . wooden shacks without having to buy building materials would be nice. nails , plaster, windows/plexi glass but thatx another topic.

Axes, Pick axes, "Hoes" , Sickles, Scythes , and various other tools being added to expand on both the weapons an the 'jobs' available would be nice.

I think you're making a lot of presumptions about axes without actually considering their historic use in battle. Axemen were some of the most feared warriors on the battlefield, sword or not. It was a different style of fighting, and one of the only disadvantages it had was to do with endurance. It can be tiring to keep an axe moving, but therein lies the advantage as well. With an axe you keep the head moving, and usually moving unpredictably so the opponent can't pick up on the rhythm and get in there. The momentum never stops.

It is also a bad assumption to suggest an axe's handle must be wooden, or that just because it is your sword is going to hack it off. A wooden handle for an axe meant for battle is likely to be a little harder to cut through than that.... But even still, there were metal handles, too.

Consider two axes spinning, heads chopping down one after another, and consider the guard that puts up against a sword. The traditional fighting techniques took swords into account (the reason axes were chosen, actually) and one axe would catch the blade and sweep it away while the other deals the killing blow.

Berzerker Jay wrote:

Chinsei wrote:Though without shields, fighting with an axe against a sword can be extremely disadvantageous. while axes might be great for chopping things up, or off as the case may be.

Swords tend to have range and flexibility on Axes. not to mention axe handles traditionally (not always) are wooden so a proper cut would have the Axe head cut off in alot of scenarios.

After all Vikings used shields, axes and swords. an axe and a shield work well together but a hand axe on its own against a swprd would more often then not end poorly for the guy holding te axe. it might not always an would obviously depend on numerous factors such as the skill of those involved. the ability for both to evade blows with "dodging" an the type of axe an stuff but i think as a general rule of thumb axes would lose.

with that said i'd also love to have spears added but i believe at some point it was stated that spears won't be a thing

but hopefully as time goes on that'll change Axes i hope get added mostly because i want more diverist in construction materials . wooden shacks without having to buy building materials would be nice. nails , plaster, windows/plexi glass but thatx another topic.

Axes, Pick axes, "Hoes" , Sickles, Scythes , and various other tools being added to expand on both the weapons an the 'jobs' available would be nice.

I think you're making a lot of presumptions about axes without actually considering their historic use in battle. Axemen were some of the most feared warriors on the battlefield, sword or not. It was a different style of fighting, and one of the only disadvantages it had was to do with endurance. It can be tiring to keep an axe moving, but therein lies the advantage as well. With an axe you keep the head moving, and usually moving unpredictably so the opponent can't pick up on the rhythm and get in there. The momentum never stops.

It is also a bad assumption to suggest an axe's handle must be wooden, or that just because it is your sword is going to hack it off. A wooden handle for an axe meant for battle is likely to be a little harder to cut through than that.... But even still, there were metal handles, too.

Consider two axes spinning, heads chopping down one after another, and consider the guard that puts up against a sword. The traditional fighting techniques took swords into account (the reason axes were chosen, actually) and one axe would catch the blade and sweep it away while the other deals the killing blow.

please note words like 'tended' and 'usually' those words aren't assumptions those words are intended to show that it isn't always the case.

before the industrial era when axes were used against swords.

Axes were made with wooden handles.

they were almost always used with shields, except for the larger axes which where usually used without shields.

the large axes were feared but not because of their effectiveness. but because of the fierceness with vikings carried themselves. which often scared people because most soldiers were peasantry, and not warriors. Yes an axe that hits does alot of damage but large axes are generally heavy and slow. while small axes are some what faster. they have extremely poor ability to 'defend' since in a real fight with weapons you don't 'block'.

You deflect the blade away and attempt to counter attack.

You have watched way to many movies.

Watch your condescension.

I come from a family with long military history, and hey, my ancestors happened to be those Vikings, so....

You're talking about axes to chop wood with. An axe designed for combat is designed to block and hook away blades. When they were made with wood they were often reinforced with metal. Since ancient times solid metal axes have been used. I don't know where you're getting your information.

I'm not saying axe and shield wasn't used. But shields aren't going in the game according to the developers, and axe and shield were not the only formidable way to use an axe. A warrior wielding two hand-axes is not simply swinging wildly. The axes swing together to keep the warrior alive and ideally take out the opponent.

Do some research, please, before you get condescending again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir2tnu3ZZog

Here's a good reference.

Berzerker Jay wrote:Watch your condescension.

I come from a family with long military history, and hey, my ancestors happened to be those Vikings, so....

You're talking about axes to chop wood with. An axe designed for combat is designed to block and hook away blades. When they were made with wood they were often reinforced with metal. Since ancient times solid metal axes have been used. I don't know where you're getting your information.

I'm not saying axe and shield wasn't used. But shields aren't going in the game according to the developers, and axe and shield were not the only formidable way to use an axe. A warrior wielding two hand-axes is not simply swinging wildly. The axes swing together to keep the warrior alive and ideally take out the opponent.

Do some research, please, before you get condescending again.

Again please note words like Generally, Usually, Tend. I'm not saying that things are always that way but more often then not.

Vikings weren't effective because they used axes its because their appearance was considered frightful . which caused most peasantry to run away. and scared soldiers tend to fight hesitantly. which often resulted in a lot of losses.

Vikings often we wiped out when they attacked more inland areas for long periods . Axes are ideal for hacking but the versatility of a sword, makes it the best weapon for combat.

if Kenshi used the full axis of swing movement. the fights would be over alot sooner, when swordsmen were fighting clubmen. by stabbing them in the stomach. Large Axes would essentially be the same thing.

Small axes again while faster then there larger counter parts still don't have as much versatility. and still aren't ideal for open field battle. the vikings used them for battle sure.but thats more because Axes are easier an cheaper to produce than swords . They allowed the raiders to set up camp by making it easier to gather wood, an other resources.

but for the most part Axes are only good for their 'fear' factor.

I don't think you know the Vikings all that well. They had many unique advantages on the battlefield, and not only were they more than just a frightful bunch of guys, they were resourceful and had very diverse strategy. A lot of misconceptions exist, such as that of the berzerker. They were actually a secret warrior society that formed the cutting edge of Viking defenses and their offense. There were two clans, basically, wolves and bears. Most of the understanding we have is just of the bears, but the wolves were actually very standoffish and tactical -- they were guerrilla warfare specialists.

These warriors were definitely fearsome, and their preference in the axe was a big part of that. Long axes were devastating and the blade would be coming from all sorts of directions and basically create a zone around the warrior where anything that enters gets hit. Even blocking the hit is difficult, and a sword would be hard pressed to do the job, to be honest.

I believe an appropriate way to look at axes in terms of game dynamics would be heavy blunt damage along with substantial cutting damage, with the speed like the wakizashi. Defense should be substantially impacted, -8 or maybe -10 to -12, with +6 to +8 attack.

This program shows a lot of the dynamics at play that make axes fairly different from swords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7htJXBnSgs4