A comment on the current alpha world design (I like it!)

[Turmoil159]

I keep seeing a lot of the people who have been around a while comment on how the current design of the world, the map itself, really sucks. Even the developer has plans to change it. But I just want to step in and say that I love it. The setting is a vast open desert, and civilization is almost non-existent. I am addicted to post-apocalypse settings, and the feeling that this current setting has makes it match that genre.

- The large, empty desert feels like the world has ended and civilization is rebuilding. This gives immersion to the theme.

- Technology is practically non-existent, as if all of humanity's technological achievements were lost during the fall of civilization. What is left is only what was accessible in the world. No massive gun factories, no urban centers with everything you could ever want.

I have to expand on that last point for a minute here: I love the Fallout series, its one of my absolute favorites, I could spend all day talking about every game in the series, however I lose my immersion when I walk into a destroyed building and there are spare bullets and half-broken guns everywhere. For example, in FO3, I remember walking into the supermarket at the beginning, and there was nothing. But everybody has assault rifles! Where did they find that ammunition? Surely the military would have used or secured all of their reserves before the war, and so it would be in short supply? The Fallout world is so full of supplies that after a certain point, it goes from being a desperate bid for survival to just Call of Duty after the nukes hit. Kenshi takes the world and says, at least to me, "There are no guns. There is no ammo, so why should we have guns? Take the metal from them, rebuild it into more useful material. Make buildings out of them, or make swords. Technology is not futuristic. Sure, we have some robotics and some advanced medical gear, but that's because we still have the means to manufacture crude forms of it. We only have what we can produce right now." That is immersion. That is proper world design.

- The world is mostly empty. In a society where practically everything is gone, what would you expect? Sprawling metropolises? I read that Chris plans on building other areas, such as ruins. I love that. But I want the ruins to be reminescent of our modern era, rather than some ancient civilization from the bronze age. I would love this game to keep the feel of a post-modern civilization.

All of this is pretty much my idea of what Albert Einstein meant when he said "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." In the world of Kenshi right now, we see the aftermath of a third world war, one that left nothing. Wherever the game is based, its not the place we know today.

If anybody sees the world the way I do, I want to hear your opinion. I would also love to hear what the developer thinks and maybe give a teaser or two if the world ends up keeping that post-apocalypse feeling. I adore this game, and can't wait until more of it comes out.

[Pain]

I'm a sucker for post-apocalyptic as well. Loved Fallout 1/2, not so much what Bethesda has done to 3/4, but hey, times change. Mind you, they were not bad games... it was just not Fallout anymore.

Chris has planned to implement ranged weapons, in what form though, we will see. I don't see a real problem with this, whether these will be some primitive bows or even guns from the before-time (Mad Max reference... anyone?). However, I would like too, to see a certain "sparseticy". Not every mob should run around with assault rifles, even handguns should be hard to aquire, and then there's also the ammo problem.

It's surely not an easy task to balance such weapons, especially when you look at the current melee system (which I absolutely love, by the way).

[Tolwrath]

I like the post apoc setting too. Frankly, I die a little inside every time someone refers to Kenshi as steampunk. (Seriously what part of that looks powered by steam?! Just because there's large metal slabs and a slipshod construction look to buildings doesn't make it steampunk.) But I don't think Chris is changing the setting. I think he's just changing the map so it isn't 100% desert.

Besides, the final game will likely still be moddable, and the cities randomly generated; it should be no problem to mod in a different map.

[Pain]

Well, at least from the feature list, he will add stuff that is very steam-punk-esque (machines, robot parts, the style applied to these things).

Why not have a blend of post-apocalyptic and steam-punk? I think it's a neat idea and one thing does not mutually exclude the other. After all, it's fiction, so everything goes.

[Tolwrath]

I didn't say I don't like steampunk. I was just saying that currently, Kenshi is not.

[Turmoil159]

Robots could be part of post-apoc. Again, look at Fallout. The pre-war time of that series had robots everywhere, doing everything including the kitchen sink (literally, look at the New Vegas DLC Old World Blues). For ranged weapons, I was under the impression he would stay with medieval gear such as bows and crossbows. Maybe a research line could open up to work towards guns, for example researching ballistics allows for muskets, and rifling allows for more modern weapons, or something like that. In terms of high-tech robotics and such, I doubt we will get anything shiny like Deus Ex cybernetics, I see it more as taking influence from Steampunk in that regard. Not powering them by steam, mind you, but the visual style of a handmade-from-scrap robot.

[Pain]

Depends on how the word steampunk is defined. Since I wasn't sure, I looked it up at wikipedia...

According to the wiki article, it is the presence of anachronistic design as well, and must not necessarily be powered by steam. Therefore, Fallout clearly has steampunk elements present with the 50ies style technology (cars, home appliances) that is there from before the war. At least, if I understand the article correctly...

Well, and Kenshi... the whole sword-fight/samurai thing, could be regarded as an anachronism. If it's enough to qualify as steampunk, I dare not say.

[Turmoil159]

Well, and Kenshi... the whole sword-fight/samurai thing, could be regarded as an anachronism. If it's enough to qualify as steampunk, I dare not say.

With Fallout, it is considered "Alternative History", and the primary technology was based on nuclear energy. So it can't be steampunk, but rather a form of cyberpunk. The Enclave faction is clearly designed around a cyberpunk concept.

As for Kenshi, it shouldn't be considered steampunk because there is no advanced technology, the current technology level of the game sits at around the iron age and the invention of steel. Whether this is due to the game actually being set in that era of history, or the apocalypse theme means that all technology and knowledge was lost is yet to be determined. I would consider it more on the line of sci-fi (for the fact of robotics) and historical fiction (provided the game takes place in the past and not the future.)

[BasiliskEye]

[Turmoil159]

That fits.

[Tolwrath]

A little off topic, but is that any good?