No progress

[Hatsune_Neko]

okies
after a bit of reading i can say for sure that your posts are not really critiques of the game but just plain complaining.
This is not critiquing the game, sorry but you get your facts wrong. except the slow development that is correct in a way.

Kenshi was released on Steam about 2 years ago about 3 to 6 months after that, sales garnered was enough to add more to the development team. and just recently we had someone new come on board.

Kenshi has had a ton of progress since then. pretty much the only thing that hasn't changed is the land. which is a placeholder until the main map comes out when Kenshi nears or hits Beta stage.
It went from no sound to a beautiful sounding background effects and music. It is still the only game i have ever played where i don't mute the music when i play. we went from all male testosterone sausage fest to a balanced world with females being added, and then recently we got wildlife. with more coming and even possibly a new race that we might be able to start with.

This is not the same Kenshi i started to play 2 years ago.

As for your insistence about bugs, you have not programed before. i did a few years of programing for my video games back in the mid 80's. one wrong character was enough to set off a chain reaction that would bug out the game badly. Though i do not program today. Mostly because it is beyond my ability to do it with todays coding. i do understand how frustrating it can be for the Devs to fix one bug, and only to have more popup due to the fix.

That is not due to a lack of organization. it is a fact when coding a video game these days. and even back when i first started it was a fact.

And for the update...... its marked APRIL... not sure its 2015 or 16.

as for the marked update that's coming in april, its this years april not next year. Like they would post about an upcoming update and then not put it out for an entire year. that has to be one of the dumbest comments i have seen in some time.

You say its alpha, on the site its says Beta download.

Yes there is mention of beta. its for the experimental build, we beta test it to find the majority of bugs so that eventually it can be released to the main Alpha Build.

[Mattk50]

And funny to read moderators say that fixing one bug can cause new bugs. How can that be if you work with test methods that prevent such issues occur? owww oops of course, there isn't a method....

Lol, Do you just assume you know how everything works before actually learning?

It's extremely obvious you havent touched a line of code in your life. You haven't wrote any scripts, i doubt you've even used a markup language. Why do you think you have the authority or credability to declare you know one iota about any development process in general. Do you even know how to define bug?

You are very wrong in all of your statements
and if you read the content of my statement, it is clear i refer to a way of working to prevent removing one bug with another.
there are programming standards and methods, especially in dynamic programming.

Second, the way you respond with language and form is way out of line
i thought we had rules on communicating on the forum

5:Remain respectful of other users, moderators and administrators at all times
6: No excessive swearing or swearing at other members (Other than that, its all good!)

i think that is more important, and keeping to content, then to just ramble and insult.

But then, it seems to be allowed towards critics of the development.

Haters will be haters i guess

well my post did get edited by neko which it probably should have.


there is no method in existence that can prevent either the existence of or the reliable elimination of bugs. If there were, everyone would be doing it.

[Rikter]

I think data is needed in this situation.

Graphed timeline of Kenshi Events


Here is the data behind the graph:

Data of Graph


Here is the equation used for the best fit line:

f(x) = 4.21 + 1.03x + 0.165x^2


The concavity of the graph is upwards, which indicates that there is a growth in the rate of development / information being shared. The amount of work being done is not fully displayed by this graph, as it only shows time-stamps and not what was involved to reach those points.
The data is unbiased, and presented based off of the information obtained from this website.

TLDR: There's progress.

[Koomatzu]

Actually, we believe we may have already found a work around ourselves for the HAVOK crash. The crash dumps in the bug report forums so far since the last patch are looking promising, fingers crossed it's fixed for good.

In the latest 64-bit version the memory leaks are fixed. The terrain (path-finding) is still buggy, yes - you can check details about this in our roadmap http://lofigames.com/road-map/. If it gives you any comfort, the road map also gives a rough time frame for progressing to BETA when the new map is released around Summer 2015. Updates can be far apart when the team work on content rather than patches, but I try to keep everyone clued in on what we're doing rather than leaving everyone in the dark. You can even check the About page http://lofigames.com/about/about-us/ to see what each of us are working on individually.

To be honest, it's highly frustrating and it's a huge shame that a small handful of indie developers have given the rest of us a bad name. We love doing what we do and we all want to see Kenshi grow into the badass game it's meant to be, Lo-Fi Games is far from being a 'money machine'. Also, Kenshi is the only game we're working on, and from a practical standpoint it would be far more foolish and damaging to us to make a runner and drop it in it's current state. It's still a very unknown game and far from being popular enough for us to make a tidy profit to roll around in

And of course people are welcome to give feedback here, good or bad

P.S. Rikter, that's some nice timelinin'

[bk3000]

Well yes, programmed, and have people program for me as well. you just need to have a system and method, and work organized. your reply seems to confirm my thoughts of not having that .

Do you by any chance have a sizable selection of the finest premium bridges for sale?

[NeoCat]

No progress? Your joking right? Please tell me your joking.
Within the past 4 or so months the amount of content in game has nearly doubled.

Everyone else is focused on the credibility of your programming experience yet I'm left wondering if you have played the game at all since Last November.

[bk3000]

No progress? Your joking right? Please tell me your joking.

Joking is the wrong word. I believe the word you where actually looking for was "trolling." I'm almost completely certain OP is trolling with every post in every thread.

>can tell a troll by looking at the pixels

[Hatsune_Neko]

No progress? Your joking right? Please tell me your joking.

Joking is the wrong word. I believe the word you where actually looking for was "trolling." I'm almost completely certain OP is trolling with every post in every thread.

>can tell a troll by looking at the pixels

i would think so as well.
thats why i made the comment of deleting it in the first place.

[PnzrNorm]

It should also be noted that OP has not existed beyond his 1 hour "troll-flash"
Considering locking this thread since Koomatzu's response is a wonderful concluding post.

[Revage]

Just an amusing anecdotal thing related to one line of fix creating a dozen new errors: Anyone familiar with Neverwinter Nights? I once knew a server that was so heavily coded, changing the weapon used by a goblin in the toolset would cause the whole module to become inoperable. Programming is some crazy stuff.

[Zeal]

One thing that may have been corrected and i may have missed, but did not see it, is that it's not really about "fixing one bug causes another". Not entirely anyway. This is one thing that can happen frequently, yes, but a more major factor is that Kenshi is still in a state where features are being focused on. And it's the inplimentation of features, systems, and engines that cause vastly more bugs than fixing other bugs. That is why it is taking so long and progress may not appear to be made.

Implimenting one new feature has the potential of throwing everything else out of alignment, either that, or rewriting of older systems to accomodate the new item. This in itself is enough to cause huge setbacks and delays. Kenshi for the last half year has been focusing on an entire new engine. And switching from 32 to 64b. I should not need to explain the amount of issues that could arrise from that.

You say you know so much about programming, but from the shear fact that you posted this thread and disagree with the statements made is blatent proof enough that you're making up statements to back your complaints without actually knowing what you're talking about. Either that, or you're going against your own knowledge, which is a bit silly.

[Ironfist]

I am not trolling,

and clearly all the arguments come from people blindly idolizing the game.

I came to the forum as I was sick and tired of waiting endlessly to a patch that can stop these crash bugs, characters that get stuck, walls that aren't working, in game freezes, lack of content, and the freaking time it takes to get this game done.

but then, this is a fan site, not open for any form of critics, except attacking the person " who dares to write bad things on the game"

easy to say programming is hard and you always get bugs and changes cause more bugs bla bla.
sure its difficult, but organization and way of working keep it to a minimum , and testing prevents major issues evolving.

Good thing on other forums a fair judgment on the game is allowed, without being axed by the whole community of blind followers.
The world is full of sheep, and plenty to find here.

to say there is an increase in content the last 6 months, leaves out the other 2 years of development.

I am not the only one, there are plenty more, one critic even describes the game as a fast forward watching film in the desert. now I wont go that far, but really the game development and content is slow, beyond slow, and surpassing that.

While my posting was almost taken down by the moderator, foul language is allowed towards the writer by others, while the moderator does nothing on it.

If it doesn't fit the propaganda, then its removed.

And to the devs, we will see in 1 year, how the state is of the game,
I am pretty sure, that its ditched or hastily finished, and some new indie game is being developed.

Just the reaction here spurred me on to increase writing more reviews on other forums on this game.


And that was not my intention when I entered here to complain about the speed of development.

[toaster Assassin]

I understand your concern regarding the belief that slow-development could be an indicator of alternative intent (developer abandonment/funds spent elsewhere), however this is categorized as an indie developed game.(i.e the level of developing resources/experience), therefore development should be gaged at an indie (not AAA) level.

To help with this discussion, can you:

-provide some examples of indie-games with an efficient development timeline and compare it to Kenshi.

-provide examples of games that took advantage of alpha status/slow development to gather funds for different projects and compare to Kenshi.

-Provide alternative methods or ideas to the use of 3rd party engines. positive vs negative.

Basically, I see your arguement,( and your opinion) however could you provide more details, along with details on what you feel could be done.
====================================================================================
Also, the modetator did not delete any of your posts. She moderated one section of a single post belonging to you (along with that of another person that you were arguing with)
Your original posts/beliefs are intact, just minus the flaming/arguement bits.

Forums exist so that members can express concern, however it is important to cite specific examples\facts so other members can understand your point of view/reasons of view. Otherwise people may mistake you as someone who joined the forum to simply troll/complain.

[Hatsune_Neko]

easy to say programming is hard and you always get bugs and changes cause more bugs bla bla.
sure its difficult, but organization and way of working keep it to a minimum , and testing prevents major issues evolving.

We are the testers.

to say there is an increase in content the last 6 months, leaves out the other 2 years of development.

You forgot Rikter's timeline. plus the announcements on the main web site plus those on Steam Forums.

I am not the only one, there are plenty more, one critic even describes the game as a fast forward watching film in the desert. now I wont go that far, but really the game development and content is slow, beyond slow, and surpassing that.

We tell them to stop playing the game at 4x speed. this isnt a game you're supposed to set out to win. for it has no current ending scenario. and don't think it will.

While my posting was almost taken down by the moderator, foul language is allowed towards the writer by others, while the moderator does nothing on it.

You mention how you were verbally abused, but the Admin ( aka me and others ) did nothing to correct it. when in fact we did, we even said in the edit line, edited for unacceptable content. and then edited your quote of it to remove the bad content.

And to the devs, we will see in 1 year, how the state is of the game,
I am pretty sure, that its ditched or hastily finished, and some new indie game is being developed.

In a year this game should be finished or at least by the end of this year. Dev has said he plans to finish this game no matter how long it takes. so dont think it will be rushed out and then dropped to start a new game. though in the AMA he said he does have ideas for his next games he wishes to make. but thats all the info we have on that.

Show us your knowledge. If there is a better way and the Dev thinks it will work he just might use it. provide us pros and cons of the methods you know of that could help Kenshi.
As toaster Assassin pointed out.

Provide alternative methods or ideas to the use of 3rd party engines. positive vs negative.

[Zeal]

I am not trolling,
and clearly all the arguments come from people blindly idolizing the game.

Mmm.. actually you're coming in here making statements and people are providing evidence against and you're placing down the shield of self-righteousness as your defense.

Your entire argument is "This game will be abandoned in a year because the devs have ill intent". You've backed up nothing other than personal belief and paranoia, throwing in more personal claims such as "I know how programming works more than any of you do". Those are not facts and evidence to provide any valid conclusion for anything other than you just saying "I'm right because I said i'm right."

Kenshi does have a history. It is very slow going, and have a very small team. And it's understandable that you'd think the slow process could be leaning towards that drop off in a year, but as people who have legitimately been following the game for quite some time and actually paying attention, there has been evidence after evidence and proof in our own eyes that this game will not be abandoned. The issue is that anyone simply popping into the game not having that prior understanding couldn't possibly know that, and have that experience.

THEN there's the issue of reversing the blame. As soon as someone disagrees with you, and even tries to explain the reasoning, you blame them as attacking or "im not allowed to state my mind". That is false. You are absolutely free to state your mind just as anyone else is to try to clarify the situation. Whether you accept that or not is completely up to you, but will have it's results.

You're allowed to disagree with others, but.... we're not allowed to disagree with you?

[Ironfist]

Best indie game examples in development and fund raising:

-Banished
-This war of mine
-Automation just came out (at least they say what is available and what is not, they developed 3 years until it was stable and efficient before releasing it alpha and give timelines!)

To have me telling me how you can develop more efficient is ridiculous, happy to be of service for the proper rate/hour !.

And I do not need to prove my programming experience, I am a customer of your failing product.
To give advice on 3rd engine options, this you should have done before you started ! not ask a customer what you should use, I just state you have no control on the havoc files, and that there are bugs crashing the program from that, and you are not in the driver seat to fix these bugs in the Havoc libraries. it is fact, not a discussion! a workaround is a workaround, not a solution to the issue, and it might come back to bite you in the butt later on in development.

And the crap of bad language I have received on my posts was there, and no actions been taken to the posters, except moderation of the text, no bans, no warnings, nothing.

And last, I am not posting a discussion, I am making a statement.
like it or not, you have an unhappy customer.
And after the treatment on this propaganda forum, you also have a dedicated poster on all game forums about your product .
And the last thing I set out to do when posting my statement here, was to spend time reviewing your bonky product on all the game review websites, but the warm reception here has made me make some room in my schedule to do so with dedication now.

And I am sure a "finished product" will turn up, but that "finished" will mean half of the content is not there, the money is put into new development, and Kenshi will remain bonky and without proper content.

This is a statement, not a discussion, based on facts! (except for the year end thing, that is my prediction)

Final note, if you cannot stand criticism, don't sell the game in alpha, sell it in Beta or finished.
Sell a product, you will have customers with expectations, and if you are slow in delivery or bad at managing these expectations, unhappy customers are the result.

I am not the only one complaining and unhappy, I seen more complains on this forum, except these threads are closed immediately by the moderator.
Perhaps you should open a thread of unhappy customers on the forum, that would be useful and it would accommodate the unhappy few, who want to express their why and how they are unhappy!
it would give room for people to express their feelings, as long as it not a bash the negative writers kind of thread, like this is by now.

Be creative with criticism, instead of hateful.
but then, these forums tend to have more sectarian members then open minded people.


Last thing, of course your free to disagree with me, just do it in a proper way, without bad language, useless demands or hate. difficult for some, even the moderator shows his sectarian loyalty in his comments on my statements.

This is the last I am going to say about it, again, its a statement, not a discussion.

Closing the thread from my part..

[Zeal]

And I do not need to prove my programming experience, I am a customer of your failing product.

You were using your claim as knowing how to program as a backing of "It's so easy!" So yes. If you want that to be a valid point, you'll need to back that experience to show that you know what the heck you're talking about.

And last, I am not posting a discussion, I am making a statement.
like it or not, you have an unhappy customer.

So.. statement. So it's just a rant? You do realize you're on a developement forum... right? you do know that... right?

And after the treatment on this propaganda forum, you also have a dedicated poster on all game forums about your product .
And the last thing I set out to do when posting my statement here, was to spend time reviewing your bonky product on all the game review websites, but the warm reception here has made me make some room in my schedule to do so with dedication now.

Now you're just making threats and blackmailing rather than contributing.

And I am sure a "finished product" will turn up, but that "finished" will mean half of the content is not there, the money is put into new development, and Kenshi will remain bonky and without proper content.

This is a statement, not a discussion, based on facts! (except for the year end thing, that is my prediction)

Not facts... personal belief... You cannot even begin to relay your points if you can't get those two definitions straight.

Final note, if you cannot stand criticism, don't sell the game in alpha, sell it in Beta or finished.
Sell a product, you will have customers with expectations, and if you are slow in delivery or bad at managing these expectations, unhappy customers are the result.

Or.. you know.. the purpose of the early access ordeal is to aid in developement, not just make statements about how the product is going to fail.

I am not the only one complaining and unhappy, I seen more complains on this forum, except these threads are closed immediately by the moderator.
Perhaps you should open a thread of unhappy customers on the forum, that would be useful and it would accommodate the unhappy few, who want to express their why and how they are unhappy!
it would give room for people to express their feelings, as long as it not a bash the negative writers kind of thread, like this is by now.

The purpose is to aid in developement. Not just tell everyone that the game is a failure when it hasn't even been released yet.

Be creative with criticism, instead of hateful.
but then, these forums tend to have more sectarian members then open minded people.

You realize that statement alone just reached around and bit itself, right?
You are the one not being open minded. How many times have you declared this game a failure and declared your own personal predictions as facts? That is what being closed minded is. You have not been on this forum long, nor do i suspect you've followed it as closely as the others have. You jumped right in for the sole purpose of making a conclusion without even understanding what you were jumping into. You already had a set mind with a set objective and a set purpose. There is not much more being closed minded than that.

Last thing, of course your free to disagree with me, just do it in a proper way, without bad language, useless demands or hate. difficult for some, even the moderator shows his sectarian loyalty in his comments on my statements.

The bad language was taken care of. Banning people on a whim for saying a no-no word is a very poor choice. There are a lot of people who have contributed very heavily to the developement of this game that banning rather than filtering would only serve to damage it's developement. It was not appropriate for them to do so, no, and they shouldn't be doing it in the future, and i'm sure that if they continued to do it on a regular basis, they would indeed be banned. I'm not a moderator though, so i shouldn't really be putting words in their mouths.

This is the last I am going to say about it, again, its a statement, not a discussion.

It is a discussion. You posted it on a forum. Just as you're free to post, so is everyone else.

The bottom line is, you posted an opinion, and other people disagreed with it. You weren't happy that they were disagreeing with you, so you started calling them out on that, saying you were free to your opinions but they were not. That is where the issue spirals out of control of self-rightiousness and hypocracy.



You.. Litterally... came onto a developement forum.. and called the item being developed a money scam.

You really think people are just going to smile, nod, and agree with you?

I hope your reviews are better written and make more sense than your arguments you've presented, because if they aren't, well.. good luck with them then.

[Ironfist]

You were using your claim as knowing how to program as a backing of "It's so easy!" So yes. If you want that to be a valid point, you'll need to back that experience to show that you know what the heck you're talking about. .

So.. statement. So it's just a rant? You do realize you're on a developement forum... right? you do know that... right? .

It is a statement after endless waiting, as I pointed to other games who did put the game up right and produced the version that is released and works and has a good roadmap in time.
and I did not post on the dev point in the forum, I put it on general post to state it has no progress.
perhaps if you deepen yourself in the many indie games that stopped before it was completed, and ran with the money, then you would understand that there is a real concern in any indie game developing so slow. check out the reviews of the game, and find how many buyers think it is never going to finish and are stating it more hash then I do.
so my view on it, is clear. you can of course think of it what you want .

Now you're just making threats and blackmailing rather than contributing

I am not blackmailing, I want nothing from anyone, I am just stating that my experience in the forum, that resulted in my actions to post reviews, I really, really, (really not) had no intentions of it at all, I just came in to claim the progress was going nowhere.

Not facts... personal belief... You cannot even begin to relay your points if you can't get those two definitions straight.

as I stated in my message, statement : (except for the year end thing, that is my prediction). so you didn't read that very well, and seems that I got my definition and reading right, and you didn't.
but let us not make it a contest, just know the last of the statement was a prediction from my side, as my expectations are somewhat "tempered" on the game future.
I just stated facts, havoc, third party, driver seat, passenger seat. simple facts.
what I am not is patient to wait until my grandkids can play the game that I bought when I was young.

The purpose is to aid in developement. Not just tell everyone that the game is a failure when it hasn't even been released yet

I am a customer, not an aid worker for development studios, if the alpha was for free, sure you have a case, but that goes away when the company charges the customer for something, then product happiness and expectations come in play.

The bad language was taken care of. Banning people on a whim for saying a no-no word is a very poor choice. There are a lot of people who have contributed very heavily to the developement of this game that banning rather than filtering would only serve to damage it's developement. It was not appropriate for them to do so, no, and they shouldn't be doing it in the future, and i'm sure that if they continued to do it on a regular basis, they would indeed be banned. I'm not a moderator though, so i shouldn't really be putting words in their mouths.

So in your logic it means, if you help develop, you get a green card for bashing people on the forum?
And yes the issue has been resolved, i am not stating that it is not.

The bottom line is, you posted an opinion, and other people disagreed with it. You weren't happy that they were disagreeing with you, so you started calling them out on that, saying you were free to your opinions but they were not. That is where the issue spirals out of control of self-rightiousness and hypocracy.

(it is righteousness and hypocrisy by the way, free spelling education )
I posted a statement, if you like it or not, it is a statement. As I belief these sounds off unhappy customers need to be heard as well.
Hence my tip to make a separate topic for criticism or unhappy customers, it is feedback after all, even if some think it is all negative.
Hearing every day how great it is , is not going to help a lot, criticism can actually help in a positive way.

I hope your reviews are better written and make more sense than your arguments you've presented, because if they aren't, well.. good luck with them then.

My reviews are great, you should read them, at least my spelling level exceeds yours
(Literally and development it is spelled, you seem to get them wrong in the whole rambling post)
But again, I am not here to make spelling lessons, I made a statement.
I stated simply, progress very slow, issues with bugs and havoc is that lo fi is not in the driver seat for the havoc bugs, and depending on 3rd party to solve it, these are facts.
the final part of my statement was that I belief it will be another indie money grab machine, it is an opinion, not a fact.

No I am really closing this thread, I just couldn't resist to reply to Zeal his rambling

[Zeal]

No I am really closing this thread, I just couldn't resist to reply to Zeal his rambling

Right. Because apparently spelling is more important than actual legitimate purpose and conceptual nature. Resorting to trolling, and personal attacks now i see.

Your spelling may be fine, but your sentence structure and correct wording are atrocious. "As I belief these" thould be "believe" ;p

[Ironfist]

No I am really closing this thread, I just couldn't resist to reply to Zeal his rambling

Right. Because apparently spelling is more important than actual legitimate purpose and conceptual nature. Resorting to trolling, and personal attacks now i see.

I not attacked you in any way, I explained and responded to all your issues you had on my post.
As you are free do to so as well

the spelling was a free gift .

nothing conceptual about my statements, and my purpose is clear in my statement.

Hence I do not see your problem.