Will the economy be as complex as the X-series?

[iSuck345]

yup,there are a lot of policy choices in that series.

I agree ,its a good choice for a system for policies.Though many of the choices wouldnt fit,they could probably come up with a good sized list that does fit kenshi.

I wasn't saying that I wold like politics in Kenshi, I'm just saying that the more complex games are in anything, no matter what it is (i.e.: Capitalism lab is quite complex in economics, and I like it. Transportation tycoon: deluxe offers alot of choices, and I like it because of that. RoM: allows you to destroy other nations in multiple ways and you can be destroyed in multiple ways.)

[Blxz]

I'm just saying that the more complex games are in anything, no matter what it is

This is dangerous thinking. Complexity is a very difficult topic; too little vs too much. And too much is a sure fire killer of any idea.

[Duck]

This is why the alpha is so great, as it allows for testing whether the complexity adds something interesting, or bogs it down.

[Tolwrath]

I find myself suddenly thinking of the Extra Credits episode a few weeks ago where they discussed the the relationship of Complexity and Depth. Though one thing I'd like to say is that when systems in a pc game get dumbed down for a console release (like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic), or just have complexity removed from games, it tends to end with pissing off the players.

[iSuck345]

i dont think that the world of kenshi is developed enough to allow a banking system.
a bank needs a stable legal system... and i dont see any of these in kenshi...

the setting is a post tribal society. you might have a warlord here and there, and maybe an ancient empire in decadence.... i wouldnt advice to open a bank right now LOL

Well tbh Europe wasn't very stable during the crusades either, but we had plenty of banking going on then. And banking has been around for a lot longer than most people think. But the merchant banking idea stems from the early middle ages, an age rife with political instability.

let me see... in europe during the crusades you have a pope, a king, a feudal legal system, trade overseas... nations, divine right... i would say that the times of the crusades aint as savage as some people seems to think... maybe you should read a bit more?

Europe was more stable during the crusades, yes, but the crusaders weren't. One day, after capturing a muslim city and getting drunk, they SLAUGHTERED women, children, old people and babies! When the muslim armies arrived, they ran away from their punishment. That doesn't give a rather good image of the crusaders, hence why I despise the crusades and the crusaders. Also, it's one of the reasons why I despise the Vatican.

[iSuck345]

I'm just saying that the more complex games are in anything, no matter what it is

This is dangerous thinking. Complexity is a very difficult topic; too little vs too much. And too much is a sure fire killer of any idea.

Also, to someone like me, there is no such thing as too complex. Emperors of the Fading Suns: the video game. I don't know much about it, but the invasions of planets are possible the most EVER realistic thing ever, instead of having a stupid (correction: RETARTED) AI choose the location for me.

[Duck]

i dont think that the world of kenshi is developed enough to allow a banking system.
a bank needs a stable legal system... and i dont see any of these in kenshi...

the setting is a post tribal society. you might have a warlord here and there, and maybe an ancient empire in decadence.... i wouldnt advice to open a bank right now LOL

Well tbh Europe wasn't very stable during the crusades either, but we had plenty of banking going on then. And banking has been around for a lot longer than most people think. But the merchant banking idea stems from the early middle ages, an age rife with political instability.

let me see... in europe during the crusades you have a pope, a king, a feudal legal system, trade overseas... nations, divine right... i would say that the times of the crusades aint as savage as some people seems to think... maybe you should read a bit more?

Those entities, and the crusades created more instability than you think. From anywhere between 1000, and 1600 the age we're talking of, wars were fought over who had the best religion, people were excommunicated, things such as a bad confession could get you killed. The armies themselves did a lot of damage to the places they went consuming resources in the towns they passed, to butchering every heretic in a town beyond the border. Sure it was more stable than a lot of people think. But you had a major superpower in the catholic church in Europe, and it fought wars that would bring today's warmongers to shame.

The Byzantines were weakened to the point that the Turks could easily conquer them.
The first crusades rose up in defence at the request of the Byzantines
You had fights in current day Portugal, and Spain to move the Muslims out of the peninsula
In northern Europe you had Germans fighting it out with the Slavs
A bit later we had the lovely just war doctrine from the then pope gregory the 7th
and in 1099 the christians hit the doorbell at jerusalem's doorstep,

This doesn't include most of the northern campaigns, and all of the stuff preceding, and antecedent to king Edward's coronation in England. The fights fought between clans in Ireland, and the norman rise to power. All in the 11th century. The crusades only played a small part in some of these events, and a major in others, but saying western Europe was stable, and telling me I have to read a bit more is rather dickish, and untrue.

[Naiba]

Of course, you could just have it so all the factions are independently self-sufficient, and only trade with surplus goods.... That way the economy could be 100% dynamic and real, but you wouldn't have to worry about it imploding, or having entire factions fall on their asses without direct intervention (wars and stuff) by the player and/or other factions. It would only exist as a way to expand the wealth of the NPC factions, not to sustain them.

It's not like you'd expect factions of Kenshi to be in any way reliant on commerce with people they want to destroy, or that many would even see or understand free trade to be all that beneficial to them. (With the exception of the Trader’s Guild, of course.)

[iSuck345]

Oh I'm sorry but, since when did this become about crusades insted of whether or not the economy of Kenshi will be as complex as the X-Series?

[Duck]

Oh I'm sorry but, since when did this become about crusades insted of whether or not the economy of Kenshi will be as complex as the X-Series?

Yeah sorry my bad I went a bit overboard =P

[iSuck345]

Oh I'm sorry but, since when did this become about crusades insted of whether or not the economy of Kenshi will be as complex as the X-Series?

Yeah sorry my bad I went a bit overboard =P

That's OK, at least I've learned ho much more pitful the crusaders were.

[wiliamjack703]

God I hope so, I like REALLY complex games like X-COM

xcom is a few things but, complex? When i hear complex i think DF, aurora, the actual x series that came out and I think it was discussed here and this thread is discussing (which isnt xcom).

Hi, can you brief shortly and differently on xcom and complex? Then only we can pull out the "but" from there.

[Mattk50]

God I hope so, I like REALLY complex games like X-COM

xcom is a few things but, complex? When i hear complex i think DF, aurora, the actual x series this thread is discussing (which isnt xcom).

Hi, can you brief shortly and differently on xcom and complex? Then only we can pull out the "but" from there.

Hi, can you write a sentence that i can read before replying to one of my posts? thank you.

[arthoz]

*sigh* X-COM is not complex just because of its economy and market simulation but also due to many other different reasons. There's so many ways you could play the game, lot of ways to manipulate the game mechanics during combat, it's rich with content and have high replayability. The economy and trade function is there just enough to simulate the mechanics of offer and demand but you must realise that X-COM is not a business or city building simulation game. It is similar like Freelancer where you got the function for trading, raiding merchant vessel and smuggling but the whole point of the game is space fighter shooter.

However a dynamic economic simulation would be great. Why not implement it first in the game or with a mod and see how it go. Could be fun scheming the downfall or a faction by ruining its economy. Forcing it to go bankrupt until all their soldiers could only equip themselves like hungry bandits and armed with wooden sticks.

[Dirca]

If we want to see complex economy in kenshi shouldn't we start it off by defining what 'complex economy' means? I don't think simple supply and demand would cut it. I'm a huge fan of the X-series but that's all there is to it, station z is low on resources so it buys stuff from station y and waits for a transport to deliver it (it may be destroyed on its way), ships and equipment are simply spawned in stations.

In kenshi I would like to see towns evolve, because as you build your outpost you research better equipment and the stuff available in towns becomes junk. I would also like to see resource specific areas, as it stands today I build a stone mine next to an ore mine next to a well and conclude I settled in an area that puts the rest of the world to shame and I can just produce everything I need in one place. With resource specific areas in place I would need AI trade caravans to supply my outpost with the resources I can't produce, or I could ditch the outpost idea and create a trade caravan of my own, making a living by moving from town to town, buying and selling while fighting off bandits.

[Hatsune_Neko]

In kenshi I would like to see towns evolve, because as you build your outpost you research better equipment and the stuff available in towns becomes junk. I would also like to see resource specific areas, as it stands today I build a stone mine next to an ore mine next to a well and conclude I settled in an area that puts the rest of the world to shame and I can just produce everything I need in one place. With resource specific areas in place I would need AI trade caravans to supply my outpost with the resources I can't produce, or I could ditch the outpost idea and create a trade caravan of my own, making a living by moving from town to town, buying and selling while fighting off bandits.

That part is planed on for the future when new biomass areas are added

[Botcher]

*snip*.

I believe by x-com, you meant the X series, there's a huge difference there and a few others have made that mistake.
Just thought I'd clarify, in case someone gets confused later or something.

Also, this is quite a necro'd thread.