Usually there's no point recommending buy or wait for an early access game; software development is just too unpredictable. You pays your money you takes your chances. But. The Lo-Fi Games team has been keeping fairly true to a path for a few years now. That path is one of worsening quality, slowing development, and erratic execution of plans. Or perhaps they ignoring published plans, which is fine except it means you can't make decision to buy today or not based on those plans.
Out of the blue we've a new message about a beta in "a few weeks" with "all core features." What that means is unclear because the list of features with the beta announcement is a list of fixes for things already prototyped, a few small surprise features that seem to make no sense the context of the published vision (campfires?), and a new world map. Hardly the makings of a beta. Then there's the disparity between the various lists on Lo-Fi's website covering released features. Some features listed as released are not or are so problematic they seem in need of a redesign and greenfield re-implementation rather than a few fixes, some long-term features ("won't be in for ages") are released while some short-terms are not; it's a mess of a road map to make any predictions from as an outsider.
There's little to nothing going on in market right now for squad-based, base-building games and it's a genre I love so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a few patches after the beta release I'll have to eat every one of these words and my tricorne for good measure. But today, if you prefer history over promises, I'd say hold onto your money and see how the beta lifecycle turns out because the alpha's has seemed a comedy of errors in slow motion.
Tell Me Why My Steam Recommendation is BS
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No Name Given
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I've been trying out Kenshi builds for nearly three years and feel like with the beta announcement it's time to weigh in with a "do not buy just yet" recommendation. But, the development of Kenshi and the state it's in today, especially in the context of the PR, is so surreal I've doubts I understand what I'm seeing. So, please, critique my negativity and tell me things ain't so.
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Hatsune_Neko
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well for one.
not everything thats planed to be added was included in the quick post to keep us informed of whats coming. and nope, i dont have that list either.
What everyone is worried about is when it was mentioned he has added all the core features and people look at their current game and go but so much is still missing.
the problem is we don't have the version he is talking about. its on their computers and the past 2 months they been working on adding the remaining core features they want. The Dev compounded this slight error by not including a full complete listing of everything thats in the next upcoming update. though they might still be adding more so the list might be a moot point anyways.
Not to mention everyone has there idea of how a game is supposed to be made and in what steps. and if the Dev doesnt fallow their idea then the game is being badly managed and doomed to fail.
The only way to convince someone is time. because its gonna take more time before this game is finished, but finish it they will.
not everything thats planed to be added was included in the quick post to keep us informed of whats coming. and nope, i dont have that list either.
What everyone is worried about is when it was mentioned he has added all the core features and people look at their current game and go but so much is still missing.
the problem is we don't have the version he is talking about. its on their computers and the past 2 months they been working on adding the remaining core features they want. The Dev compounded this slight error by not including a full complete listing of everything thats in the next upcoming update. though they might still be adding more so the list might be a moot point anyways.
Not to mention everyone has there idea of how a game is supposed to be made and in what steps. and if the Dev doesnt fallow their idea then the game is being badly managed and doomed to fail.
The only way to convince someone is time. because its gonna take more time before this game is finished, but finish it they will.
Do you believe the sexes should be equal?
Oh heavens no.
Then Men would become unmanageable
Current computer specs.
AMD FX-8150 - Eight Core, 3.60GHz
NVidia GTX 1050TI
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Oh heavens no.
Then Men would become unmanageable
Current computer specs.
AMD FX-8150 - Eight Core, 3.60GHz
NVidia GTX 1050TI
24GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz Ram
WD 1tb HD, 870 EVO 1TB SSD
I've found that the people developing Kenshi are doing a good job of building a fun game with a tiny staff/budget; they are not so good at road map/community management. Your example of the release announcement is an example; when I read it I thought it was poorly written for the audiences it needs to inform; the faithful didn't get much more than hope and it didn't seem like it would attract any potential buyer who was unaware of Kenshi to go buy it. It probably a harder task than I am aware, but the lack of followup and additional details backs up that perception.
I'm looking forward to February, hopefully beta drops. If not I still got it in my library when it does.
Kenshi development is a glacier, but there has been substantial progress and there is a good chance that the promise of this potentially great game will be realized. I try not to do anything to scare off potential backers.
I'm looking forward to February, hopefully beta drops. If not I still got it in my library when it does.
Kenshi development is a glacier, but there has been substantial progress and there is a good chance that the promise of this potentially great game will be realized. I try not to do anything to scare off potential backers.
I would recommend Kenshi based on the alpha.
I have noticed steadily improving gameplay and features since the first release of Kenshi.
I'd heavily debate the point that the game has demonstrated "worsening quality" and "slowing development".
I will however, concede the point about erratic execution of plans and ignoring published plans. I'd agree that there could be better project management when it comes to the execution of features. The main example that comes to mind is a member of the team working on something else because his primary task (pathfinding) had become too aggravating.
You also can't put faith in the road map when it comes to what to expect in purchasing the current game. With multiple people working on different tasks, you can't expect, "This feature by this time". If you follow the Trello page, you can see what features have been completed. Even if fragments of a large " core feature" have been completed, it can't be released until the whole thing is done.
Beta is so exciting, primarily because it teases the release of completely new mechanics. Naturally, it's gonna break the holy fudge out of everything. It's also not "Out of the blue". If you follow the developers Trello, you can see that major features have been inching towards completion every week.
In terms of gameplay, Kenshi began with a rough idea of function and new gameplay mechanics often " broke" or destabilized the game. These required fixes and generally as one problem has fixed, a new addition broke the game again.
Bear in mind that this IS an early access game. It IS a work in progress. Part of the "charm" of early access games is watching development and making recommendations and noting problems that you experience during gameplay.
My only concern is a rush job, with Chris and team leaving the game without fully optimizing and streamlining all the new parts. I'm not worried because Chris and team have put a decent amount of love and interest into this game.
Basically, the main consideration is whether you can tolerate playing a game that occasionally breaks and stutters. I'm often irritated by the breaks but can generally figure out how to make a temporary fixes to keep the game running.
It's like watching someone sculpt. If you don't want to buy an unfinished sculpture, then don't. I can't fault you on wanting a completed piece of art. But IMO, Kenshi has retained it's beauty in concept since the beginning and through most of its iterations.
So I'd say your review isn't BS. But it is chickenshit.
I have noticed steadily improving gameplay and features since the first release of Kenshi.
I'd heavily debate the point that the game has demonstrated "worsening quality" and "slowing development".
I will however, concede the point about erratic execution of plans and ignoring published plans. I'd agree that there could be better project management when it comes to the execution of features. The main example that comes to mind is a member of the team working on something else because his primary task (pathfinding) had become too aggravating.
You also can't put faith in the road map when it comes to what to expect in purchasing the current game. With multiple people working on different tasks, you can't expect, "This feature by this time". If you follow the Trello page, you can see what features have been completed. Even if fragments of a large " core feature" have been completed, it can't be released until the whole thing is done.
Beta is so exciting, primarily because it teases the release of completely new mechanics. Naturally, it's gonna break the holy fudge out of everything. It's also not "Out of the blue". If you follow the developers Trello, you can see that major features have been inching towards completion every week.
In terms of gameplay, Kenshi began with a rough idea of function and new gameplay mechanics often " broke" or destabilized the game. These required fixes and generally as one problem has fixed, a new addition broke the game again.
Bear in mind that this IS an early access game. It IS a work in progress. Part of the "charm" of early access games is watching development and making recommendations and noting problems that you experience during gameplay.
My only concern is a rush job, with Chris and team leaving the game without fully optimizing and streamlining all the new parts. I'm not worried because Chris and team have put a decent amount of love and interest into this game.
Basically, the main consideration is whether you can tolerate playing a game that occasionally breaks and stutters. I'm often irritated by the breaks but can generally figure out how to make a temporary fixes to keep the game running.
It's like watching someone sculpt. If you don't want to buy an unfinished sculpture, then don't. I can't fault you on wanting a completed piece of art. But IMO, Kenshi has retained it's beauty in concept since the beginning and through most of its iterations.
So I'd say your review isn't BS. But it is chickenshit.
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Mattk50
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development has always been pretty slow and i haven't noticed worsening quality. dont know when you started following kenshi that you've ever seen speedy progress, so i don't really think criticizing it on the basis of getting worse has much merit.
Great, another person buying an indie game expecting triple A results..
Seriously though, I don't understand how you think the game is getting worse in quality? Or how their road map is a mess? It's there to tell us the features they will put in the game, and I can totally understand them jumping around on the road map since some things that may seem hard to put in initially really aren't. And things that seem easy to put in turn out be fairly difficult.
Honestly, i'm happy with the game. I've had well my money's worth out of it the first month I bought it, let alone the fact I've had it for years. A great example of people trying to rush the devs and the devs giving in and releasing an inferior product and catching flak for it would be Project Zomboid. It's a great game as of right now, but they released NPCs FAR before they should of. It resulted in a nearly unplayable game at one point, all because people wanted NPCs NOW instead of waiting a little longer.
Basically don't rush the devs that have a very small production team (I'm not sure how many people exactly? Last I really looked it was just Chris and one artist?) and complain about the slow progress just because it may not be as fast as other games or whatever. I can honestly say I've had very FEW game breaking bugs...
Seriously though, I don't understand how you think the game is getting worse in quality? Or how their road map is a mess? It's there to tell us the features they will put in the game, and I can totally understand them jumping around on the road map since some things that may seem hard to put in initially really aren't. And things that seem easy to put in turn out be fairly difficult.
Honestly, i'm happy with the game. I've had well my money's worth out of it the first month I bought it, let alone the fact I've had it for years. A great example of people trying to rush the devs and the devs giving in and releasing an inferior product and catching flak for it would be Project Zomboid. It's a great game as of right now, but they released NPCs FAR before they should of. It resulted in a nearly unplayable game at one point, all because people wanted NPCs NOW instead of waiting a little longer.
Basically don't rush the devs that have a very small production team (I'm not sure how many people exactly? Last I really looked it was just Chris and one artist?) and complain about the slow progress just because it may not be as fast as other games or whatever. I can honestly say I've had very FEW game breaking bugs...
AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor @ 3.50 GHz
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AMD Radeon R7 200 Series
8 GB RAM
Windows 8.1
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Hatsune_Neko
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nuget102 wrote: Basically don't rush the devs that have a very small production team (I'm not sure how many people exactly? Last I really looked it was just Chris and one artist?)
you can find the info in your default kenshi steam install data directory.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kenshi\data
Look for Credits.txt
here is the complete list minus Contributors.
DESIGNED AND DEVELOPED BY LO-FI GAMES:
Chris Hunt
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PROGRAMMERS
Sam Gynn
Maykol Irigoyen
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ENVIRONMENT ARTIST
Oliver Hatton
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3D ARTIST & GUI
Otto Klevnas Klang
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MIGHTY ASSISTANT
Natalie Mikkelson
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ADDITIONAL ARTWORK
3D-Masala.com
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MUSIC AND SOUND DESIGN
Kole Audio Solutions
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WRITING & DIALOGUE
Chris Hunt
Natalie Mikkelson
Harald Hagen
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CONCEPT ARTIST
Sergey Musin
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FOLIAGE ARTWORK
Patrik "Vurt" Andersson
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TECHNICAL ARTIST
Chris Roberts
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ADDITIONAL SHADERS
Christopher Christensen
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3D CREATURE ARTIST & TECHNICAL VFX ADVISOR
Linda MacGill (Bug Zen Games)
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ADDITIONAL ARTISTS
Lamoot: Early Sword Models
Olivier Guesne: Titlescreen and logo
Tassilo Bindl: 1st GUI Skin
"Joetokell": Facebook Page
Do you believe the sexes should be equal?
Oh heavens no.
Then Men would become unmanageable
Current computer specs.
AMD FX-8150 - Eight Core, 3.60GHz
NVidia GTX 1050TI
24GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz Ram
WD 1tb HD, 870 EVO 1TB SSD
Oh heavens no.
Then Men would become unmanageable
Current computer specs.
AMD FX-8150 - Eight Core, 3.60GHz
NVidia GTX 1050TI
24GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz Ram
WD 1tb HD, 870 EVO 1TB SSD
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