Slavery?

[Mattk50]

I'd really like to see the african/roman version of slavery if anything, because the american version is far less interesting (and far more harsh)

[Hvizeu]

[start sarcasm] damn yeah, lets make so that only black and red ppl can be put into cages and only white european blonde man over 21 years cannot (womans and children not included because they are weak n shit), and while we are at it lets make a option where u free them later on give them a shitty salary , erase their story and culture and make them think they are free!!! [end sarcasm]

I dont know how it is on rich countrys but in the south half of the world (yes it exists) slavery is a big deal especially when the european managed to make life shit for every one on the south of the equatorial tropic for over 2000 years and never even apologise...so yeah slavery is stilla big shit over here...that is why i think there should be more though put on such a system and what it represents for every one, if you want freedom, ask chris to make you able to make a gay punk black man with a red mohawk and swolen tities, but dont tell me a slavery system adds freedom to a game...its just one more sadistic satisfaction for kids who know nothing of the real world.

Sorry for venting like this but as you can see this shit is serious, and i guess someone gotta be against it sometime.

[zibathy]

Except slavery isn't just brown or red people. White people have enslaved white people. This is a game. Slavery's been around for as long as people have. It adds to the realism, and I highly doubt the only people anyone's gonna enslave are just black or some crap...

[gruber12]

dont like it dont enslave anyone. you could even make a slave freeing company.

Pixels arent people

[Santaissick]

Sounds like brotherhood.

[DrSalvador]

[start sarcasm] damn yeah, lets make so that only black and red ppl can be put into cages and only white european blonde man over 21 years cannot (womans and children not included because they are weak n shit), and while we are at it lets make a option where u free them later on give them a shitty salary , erase their story and culture and make them think they are free!!! [end sarcasm]

I dont know how it is on rich countrys but in the south half of the world (yes it exists) slavery is a big deal especially when the european managed to make life shit for every one on the south of the equatorial tropic for over 2000 years and never even apologise...so yeah slavery is stilla big shit over here...that is why i think there should be more though put on such a system and what it represents for every one, if you want freedom, ask chris to make you able to make a gay punk black man with a red mohawk and swolen tities, but dont tell me a slavery system adds freedom to a game...its just one more sadistic satisfaction for kids who know nothing of the real world.

Sorry for venting like this but as you can see this shit is serious, and i guess someone gotta be against it sometime.

Well, in reference to when he said the african slavery...pretty sure he meant slavery in africa (africans enslaved africans before europeans/americans did) in which it was more of capturing prisoners and hauling them around, selling them and stuff (i think) as opposed to having an estate and forcing them to work

[Captain Deathbeard]

[start sarcasm] damn yeah, lets make so that only black and red ppl can be put into cages and only white european blonde man over 21 years cannot (womans and children not included because they are weak n shit), and while we are at it lets make a option where u free them later on give them a shitty salary , erase their story and culture and make them think they are free!!! [end sarcasm]

I dont know how it is on rich countrys but in the south half of the world (yes it exists) slavery is a big deal especially when the european managed to make life shit for every one on the south of the equatorial tropic for over 2000 years and never even apologise...so yeah slavery is stilla big shit over here...that is why i think there should be more though put on such a system and what it represents for every one, if you want freedom, ask chris to make you able to make a gay punk black man with a red mohawk and swolen tities, but dont tell me a slavery system adds freedom to a game...its just one more sadistic satisfaction for kids who know nothing of the real world.

Sorry for venting like this but as you can see this shit is serious, and i guess someone gotta be against it sometime.

Do you really think slavery would be added to the game purely for people to "enjoy having slaves"?
Its not, don't worry. The main purpose of slavery in the game is to give you something to fight against, and more often than not the player will be the slave, not the slaver.

That said an open game like this needs freedom of choice and the option of choosing an evil path. If you control the player and tell him to free slaves, well thats no fun then, you're just doing what you are told and you learn nothing from it. The player needs to make the DECISION to fight against it, thats what makes it meaningful.
And if a player decides to be evil and own slaves, well thats fine too, he's just playing a bad guy and knows slavery is wrong, just as he knows stabbing people with swords is wrong. The game is not going to glorify slavery or make light of it.

[vurt]

Except slavery isn't just brown or red people. White people have enslaved white people.

Indeed.

Slavery exists even to this date, especially amongst the muslims. Usually this is censored by the media (or just not talked about much) since it's not considered P.C to talk down on muslims or their culture.

I liked the idea with slaves, and i really dont see how freeing slaves would glorify slavery in any way.. if you choose to be a slaver you only have yourself to blame.

[Hvizeu]

Do you really think slavery would be added to the game purely for people to "enjoy having slaves"?
Its not, don't worry. The main purpose of slavery in the game is to give you something to fight against, and more often than not the player will be the slave, not the slaver.

That said an open game like this needs freedom of choice and the option of choosing an evil path. If you control the player and tell him to free slaves, well thats no fun then, you're just doing what you are told and you learn nothing from it. The player needs to make the DECISION to fight against it, thats what makes it meaningful.
And if a player decides to be evil and own slaves, well thats fine too, he's just playing a bad guy and knows slavery is wrong, just as he knows stabbing people with swords is wrong. The game is not going to glorify slavery or make light of it.

As i said before, i just want you to be carefull on the system (despite being agaist such form of entretaiment i know i aint gonna stop you from doing it), for example i am a huge fan of mount and blade and it has a prisioner selling system in witch you dont realy get the feeling you are removing someones freedom since all that happens is they go to your prisioners list then you can go to a tavern and sell them either to a ransom broker (wich is gonna bargain for their freedom with the families) or a slave trader (wich is gonna pay you better and make them slaves), in my opinion that makes people make a connection between selling prisioner = money = me happy , now i think a simple thing as a dialog pop up and the slave tell you "man, dont sell me like that just let me go i just want to go home i swear i will never pick up arms again...please i have a kid ...i dont want to mine salt for the rest of my life!" would help making that connection less automatic and add as much to immersion as for conscience of action (as in knowing what you did and why u did it).

As for the " he's just playing a bad guy and knows slavery is wrong" i hope you be carefull and dont assume everyone knows that, i've seen kids with 8 years working chopping sugar cane for 2 bucks each sqare kilometer of cut cane...and if you take a look at sian russia there is still old fashion slavery, and in africa as well, you cant just assume everyone is just playing the role of a evil guys, some people are realy damn evil, and i emphatyse be carefull with the slaves system and if the choses do play the evil guy, make him feel evil (diferent from mount and blade i must add).

About trying to justify wrong with wrong, yes the africans have been slaving eachother for ages, but does it make it right for a bunch of egypcians/romans/greeks/portugues,french and spanish to come over there, slave aroud some more, take them to anotyher continent(in the case of the portugues,french and spanish) and make them wortk there? The religions of the middle-east are just sexist and even if they do have old school slaves, woman have been slaves for them as soon as they started worshiping their gods, but dont judge muslims, jews and islamics before you take a look at christians, they are the ones that did the most slavery in the world, the most number of wars, genocides, exploitation,...be carefull with history, maybe the ones that are being crucified by the media aint so evil as much as the one selling the media.

[Captain Deathbeard]

As i said before, i just want you to be carefull on the system (despite being agaist such form of entretaiment i know i aint gonna stop you from doing it), for example i am a huge fan of mount and blade and it has a prisioner selling system in witch you dont realy get the feeling you are removing someones freedom since all that happens is they go to your prisioners list then you can go to a tavern and sell them either to a ransom broker (wich is gonna bargain for their freedom with the families) or a slave trader (wich is gonna pay you better and make them slaves), in my opinion that makes people make a connection between selling prisioner = money = me happy , now i think a simple thing as a dialog pop up and the slave tell you "man, dont sell me like that just let me go i just want to go home i swear i will never pick up arms again...please i have a kid ...i dont want to mine salt for the rest of my life!" would help making that connection less automatic and add as much to immersion as for conscience of action (as in knowing what you did and why u did it).

I agree with you there, I will show the humanity as best I can.

As for the " he's just playing a bad guy and knows slavery is wrong" i hope you be carefull and dont assume everyone knows that, i've seen kids with 8 years working chopping sugar cane for 2 bucks each sqare kilometer of cut cane...and if you take a look at sian russia there is still old fashion slavery, and in africa as well, you cant just assume everyone is just playing the role of a evil guys, some people are realy damn evil, and i emphatyse be carefull with the slaves system and if the choses do play the evil guy, make him feel evil (diferent from mount and blade i must add).

A real-life russian slave baron is unlikely be an RPG gamer, and even if he was I doubt a game would have any effect on his morals either way. But if he did, maybe getting caught and sold into slavery in-game would show him how it feels.

Don't make the common mistake of thinking games affect peoples real-life behavior. Everyone is always running studies to try and prove GTA makes kids violent, and they can never prove a thing. Otherwise we would all be jumping on turtles. Or running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive music.

About trying to justify wrong with wrong, yes the africans have been slaving eachother for ages, but does it make it right for a bunch of egypcians/romans/greeks/portugues,french and spanish to come over there, slave aroud some more, take them to anotyher continent(in the case of the portugues,french and spanish) and make them wortk there? The religions of the middle-east are just sexist and even if they do have old school slaves, woman have been slaves for them as soon as they started worshiping their gods, but dont judge muslims, jews and islamics before you take a look at christians, they are the ones that did the most slavery in the world, the most number of wars, genocides, exploitation,...be carefull with history, maybe the ones that are being crucified by the media aint so evil as much as the one selling the media.

I agree with you entirely. But please note that everybody here is against real-life slavery.

[zibathy]

To be honest i like that anti-slavery guy's idea of having them ask for their freedom and having them be prisoners first before you make them slaves. Like lets say you capture someone and they are POW's and you can routinely sell them for money or make them slaves. I like that idea. But i dunno, then everybody would make every enemy a POW and abuse the system and become infinitely wealthy.

I dunno. I trust you'll make the best choices, Chris. Clearly you always have based on how awesome this game is so far.

[DrSalvador]

I say all the game really needs added apart from the slavery aspect itself is a Morale factor. Prisoner/slave morale would need to be kept low, and in battle, depending on who's winning morale would adjust until the losing side would either flee or surrender, based on what's happening.

Perhaps if say you were taken prisoner, maybe add an "Escape with me" option you could say to another prisoner, and depending on their current morale they'd be like "no way man, we'd be dead!", or "You think we can do it? ALright, lets go." Assuming they escaped with you and you both made it, they'd automatically be your partner.

Just my 2 cents.

[Hvizeu]

A real-life russian slave baron is unlikely be an RPG gamer, and even if he was I doubt a game would have any effect on his morals either way. But if he did, maybe getting caught and sold into slavery in-game would show him how it feels.

Don't make the common mistake of thinking games affect peoples real-life behavior. Everyone is always running studies to try and prove GTA makes kids violent, and they can never prove a thing. Otherwise we would all be jumping on turtles. Or running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive music.

I have to admit i laughted realy hard on the dark room and pills thing

About the Slave Baron, he is not going to play but his kids are, and a lot of other kids are, and video games dont influence you with literal effects, such as "i play gta so now i have a 30% plus chance to become a psycho murder!" nope, but if you played gta and listened to the dialogues, you will somewhat know how it is to be in the shoes of the guys that the media crucify and get a lil bit of the other side of the stories.
I remember the first time i played Metal Gear Solid my mind was blown, for how the government manipulated things and how people where so eager on build the "best killing machine", that is a questioning i carry with me yet today, so i am pretty sure Video Games have a influence on the person playing it in a complex psychological way not in the mainstream midia "yo gonna be a psycho bro!" way.

ps.: I learned to speak and read in english with video games...

[DrSalvador]

A real-life russian slave baron is unlikely be an RPG gamer, and even if he was I doubt a game would have any effect on his morals either way. But if he did, maybe getting caught and sold into slavery in-game would show him how it feels.

Don't make the common mistake of thinking games affect peoples real-life behavior. Everyone is always running studies to try and prove GTA makes kids violent, and they can never prove a thing. Otherwise we would all be jumping on turtles. Or running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive music.

I have to admit i laughted realy hard on the dark room and pills thing

About the Slave Baron, he is not going to play but his kids are, and a lot of other kids are, and video games dont influence you with literal effects, such as "i play gta so now i have a 30% plus chance to become a psycho murder!" nope, but if you played gta and listened to the dialogues, you will somewhat know how it is to be in the shoes of the guys that the media crucify and get a lil bit of the other side of the stories.
I remember the first time i played Metal Gear Solid my mind was blown, for how the government manipulated things and how people where so eager on build the "best killing machine", that is a questioning i carry with me yet today, so i am pretty sure Video Games have a influence on the person playing it in a complex psychological way not in the mainstream midia "yo gonna be a psycho bro!" way.

ps.: I learned to speak and read in english with video games...

I got into the hitman series when i was but a wee 11 years old, and i thought playing as a murderous stealth killer was the coolest thing since sliced bread. but never did i actually wanna go kill people...

The logic my parents had was
"It's just a game, right?"
"Yes sir"
"So what's in the game stays in the game, right?"
"Yes sir"
"Then play whatever you want to"

That being said, I do know many parents buy their kids games just to shut them up without even glancing at the game, and that's who I'm taking it you are targeting in your post.

[Hvizeu]

I got into the hitman series when i was but a wee 11 years old, and i thought playing as a murderous stealth killer was the coolest thing since sliced bread. but never did i actually wanna go kill people...

The logic my parents had was
"It's just a game, right?"
"Yes sir"
"So what's in the game stays in the game, right?"
"Yes sir"
"Then play whatever you want to"

That being said, I do know many parents buy their kids games just to shut them up without even glancing at the game, and that's who I'm taking it you are targeting in your post.

As well. I personally think that your kid should understand whats happening in his "imaginary" outlet, if he kills someone in a game, i want him to already grasp the concepts of death and violence, not that he just sit there and keep drolling over the TV all day long pressing a bunch of buttons and see stuff explode, and we know thats what happen, kids dont even care what the game is about, they just mash buttons and stare, i remember asking my nephew (who is getting to be a spoield brat by his parents) what the game he is playin is about, and he had no damn clue, not just playing games, but doing anything midlessly its just a waste of time, you are just waiting for your life to pass by.

[Scotterius]

ps.: I learned to speak and read in english with video games...

Another reason why every berk should play "Planescape:Torment". Learn to speak English, you cutters!

[Maan]

Gameplay wise, there should never be a right or wrong way to play the game: a sandbox game is all about freedom of choice.

As noted above, selling slaves or putting them to work is no doubt going to be quite profitable. So, the point is finding something to reward the player that decide to discard those easy profits.

It could be some kind of reputation.
You are a magnanimous anti-slavery type? Other factions will heal you if they find you unconscious after a battle.
You are a slaver? When they find you unconscious after a battle, other factions will sell you into slavery. Or you'll be sexually abused by wild coyotes, dunno. Some kind of karmic-justice.

About ethics and video games: old story, really.
If you want my two cents, I blame parents for not monitoring the kind of games their children play. Games with this kind of content shouldn't be played by a kid who doesn't have the maturity to properly understand the context.

[Hvizeu]

I agree with almost all you said, but just for the record, gameplay wise, other than mount and blade there aint no sandbox game with slavery in it (not including mods), and even in mount and blade its more of a POW thing than a slave thing since they dont do labour and all, and you can still set them free, sell them as slaves (wich pays less) or ransom them to their families(thats what i call a carefull aproach to a sensible topic).

[Blxz]

Why should choosing not to sell slaves have a positive reward, karmic or otherwise? Simply treating it dispassionately as a purely business decision is more effective; without trying to put an artificial moral slant on things. If you don't sell them you miss out on a lot of money opportunities. You don't get any benefit from doing the 'right thing' other than the self satisfaction that you know what you did. If it is simply a choice of money or some sort of arbitrary moral 'currency' like good karma then how is that actually you doing any good? No, you have simply weighed your options for profit and chosen the one you think suits you better. in which case we are back to a dispassionate business model again.....except this time we have imaginary karma points included for the fun of it.

[Scotterius]

Why should choosing not to sell slaves have a positive reward, karmic or otherwise?

To further support this,why should slaving have a negative connotation for that matter? Take a starving bandit, how long do you think they live out in the waste? What is their life like? Being enslaved and sold to a farm is a huge leap in social status. They now have shelter, they now have food, they can now work without risking their lives every day.

Questions like these in turn question the modern day sentimentality of freedom and its value. This is vital to learn its importance, meaning, and recognize real life threats to personal liberty. This has real life value, and is a good reason to include the aspect in the game.

I honestly think that selling into slavery is a far kinder act than leaving them to bleed out in the desert. Degrees of slavery (indentured servant, work prisoner, wage slavery) could be implemented to focus the moral nature of slavery.