Leg size, height, and frame: A land of dwarfs and ubertalls.

[Nathan_Algren]

One thing that I've noticed while playing the game as the whitest guy around (decided to make a blondeish Charlton Heston character) is that getting the height right for my character was tough. Most of the NPCs either are affected by dwarfism, or are super tall, compared to the average 100 default height and leg size of my character. Additionally, the super-tall are almost always thin. So thin, some of them look like alien creatures from another world.

Neither of these traits would really be common in the world (shorter leg size naturally would slow you down, and basketball isn't exactly in the game) so that leads to one conclusion: The random character generator is messed up.

Seriously, when 2 in 5 characters at minimum are dwarfs, it makes you feel like the Holy Emperor was a part of some sort of cruel genetic experiment in the desert, breeding dwarfs and forcing them to live in the sand.

Despite that, I feel that the random character generator should try to keep it simple and only generate characters between 92 and 110 height, with similar leg length. Frame should have a minimum generation, too. Dwarfism and ubertallism should be a low-chance outlier generation, happening somewhat rarely or hell, even faction based (dwarf faction for the win). I don't know how the system is designed now, but I'm sure this could be worked in to make the game more realistic.

All in all though, stick people and dwarfs are too common. Whether this is medieval or post-apocalyptic is of no concern; those traits are rare then, now, and probably in a post apocalyptic world too. 5'7 is the international norm, because it just works.

[Mattk50]

the random char generator should be on a Gaussian curve for the traits, it isn't right now.

[Tolwrath]

While I agree that the NPC generation should utilize Gaussian curves, or templates to steer towards, I also want to point out that the setting is not necessarily on earth. Expecting what's common in our world could indeed be mistaken. It could turn out these people are actually more genetically variant than humans, lending to such variant sizes that they may as well be divided into separate races.

I do find it weird that short ones are always stocky and tall ones always thin though. At any rate, if you don't like the NPCs, then genetically/ethnically cleanse them until the world meets your standards.

[Nathan_Algren]

While I agree that the NPC generation should utilize Gaussian curves, or templates to steer towards, I also want to point out that the setting is not necessarily on earth. Expecting what's common in our world could indeed be mistaken. It could turn out these people are actually more genetically variant than humans, lending to such variant sizes that they may as well be divided into separate races.

I do find it weird that short ones are always stocky and tall ones always thin though. At any rate, if you don't like the NPCs, then genetically/ethnically cleanse them until the world meets your standards.

Separate world or not, Darwin's theory of evolution would probably still stand. We are on average 5'7 on earth because that gave us the leg length and build to survive well in the world that we lived in. Dwarfism, to be completely honest, was a hindrance to those affected by it in the days before our civilized, peaceful and loving world came into existence. If you're running through the desert being chased by starving mad men with clubs, then you will need big and strong legs to carry you quickly or else you will die.

It isn't about normality; it's about what works. Dwarfism would work great for individuals who mine, so maybe a faction centered around mining or maybe workers who mine could be short and stout. It would be a social niche they filled as a back drop. Why do you think so much fiction has been centered around dwarfs who mine all the time? Their bodies are small, so they can climb around in smaller tunnels, and smaller tunnels means you generally don't need to worry as much about them caving in. There is no doubt that someone in history probably realized this, and had his own personal army of 3' foot miners.

We don't look the way we do because we chose it, we look the way we do because it kept us alive to breed with one another and have more people that looks the way we do. This game world is very earth-like, therefore, I would assume that it, too, applies.

With that said, I'll take a rain check on the ethnic cleansing part. I like having MasterBlaster in my squad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU

[Tolwrath]

Nice reference! You've provided your own reasonable explanation for the variance though, just secluded/selective breeding needed to fill niche areas. Speaking of desert, though, it's been said that the final map will have more biomes. So maybe we'll end up seeing more dwarves in some areas, and more half-giants in others.

How would you feel about the NPC randomizer taking geographical location into account?

Incidentally, "half-giants" seems unfitting, due to their slender nature. If you had to name them as a species, what would you call them? (And no "slender men" is not acceptable, there's already enough references to that on the internet.)

[Nathan_Algren]

Indeed, selective breeding is a successful strategy though, which is why I considered it as an explanation for the mass numbers. There are "double muscled" cattle like the Belgian blue, which are developed by the breeders selecting a line of traits specific to heavy muscling, emphasizing them over the ages, and after generations they finally create a cow reminiscent of Hulk Hogan. It is commonly used on animals, but to even consider it regarding people is taboo, thanks to der furious addy hittles.

If the NPC generator were to take geographic location into account, that would be pretty amazing. One time, a ways back, I was watching an episode off of either discovery or Nat Geo about how a persons genetics can evolve over time to better suit the environment that they are living in. People who live higher in the mountains are generally shorter with wider chest cavities to process lighter air, people in sunny areas will develop higher levels of melanin in their skin, and colder areas lead to furry people. There was more to it, but I've forgotten the name of the episode and much of the information.

The half-giants though, I feel should be named the "Balhopian" or something. They look like they would be really, really good at basketball. So... Balhopian!

[Tolwrath]

That works with both post-appoc and alien world views of the setting. Because rather than saying people naturally adapted over time, you can say that they forcefully adapted because there was a need to be in those places.

The weirdest part of it is that they all have the same basic face. Creepy...

[philthymcnasty]

all my holy empire guys are tall and lanky, and the dust bandits all have grey hair. I do hope factions will get their own physical traits, that would be kinda neat, as well as help with the identification since they are no longer color coded.

[philthymcnasty]

While I agree that the NPC generation should utilize Gaussian curves, or templates to steer towards, I also want to point out that the setting is not necessarily on earth. Expecting what's common in our world could indeed be mistaken. It could turn out these people are actually more genetically variant than humans, lending to such variant sizes that they may as well be divided into separate races.

I do find it weird that short ones are always stocky and tall ones always thin though. At any rate, if you don't like the NPCs, then genetically/ethnically cleanse them until the world meets your standards.

Separate world or not, Darwin's theory of evolution would probably still stand. We are on average 5'7 on earth because that gave us the leg length and build to survive well in the world that we lived in. Dwarfism, to be completely honest, was a hindrance to those affected by it in the days before our civilized, peaceful and loving world came into existence. If you're running through the desert being chased by starving mad men with clubs, then you will need big and strong legs to carry you quickly or else you will die.

It isn't about normality; it's about what works. Dwarfism would work great for individuals who mine, so maybe a faction centered around mining or maybe workers who mine could be short and stout. It would be a social niche they filled as a back drop. Why do you think so much fiction has been centered around dwarfs who mine all the time? Their bodies are small, so they can climb around in smaller tunnels, and smaller tunnels means you generally don't need to worry as much about them caving in. There is no doubt that someone in history probably realized this, and had his own personal army of 3' foot miners.

We don't look the way we do because we chose it, we look the way we do because it kept us alive to breed with one another and have more people that looks the way we do. This game world is very earth-like, therefore, I would assume that it, too, applies.

With that said, I'll take a rain check on the ethnic cleansing part. I like having MasterBlaster in my squad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU

I kinda like the sound of this. It would be awesome for a look out to identify wanders based on their features, and call for a standby squad to aid them if they get waylaid near your base and happen to be allied with you. It also be neat if it grants racial bonuses for some guys. Say the dwarfs get hired for mining, but the blue within blue eyed Fremen get hired because they are good at surviving in the desert.