Criticize Us Here

[IronMaverick]

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I'm facing the opposite issue.. It's like my entire team is a mindhive connected through some psychological link or something... Sometimes it feels like wherever I am on the map, if some bandit or something so much as looks at one of my units funny, my entire civilization comes rushing to dismember them, but the danger will have been LONG gone by the time they'd actually get there..

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Now there my friend is a suggestion however, the new hive race could use something like that, obviously more efficient use of it. I'm off to post that!

[HalbesEi]

You can drag select every character across multiple squads if you press shift while selecting

But still - there are issues with LOS at the moment

[Badger0]

I don't know if I've ever actually posted here before, but I've checked this website and played the game a number of times since I originally bought it. I'm not any kind of an active forumite and I avoid larger communities such as Steam, so I'm very fond of this forum (despite my lack of activity). But basically the news I get about progress are from the front page.

The amount of news has certainly increased since the Lo-Fi team saw an increase in number, but it still feels like news can be few and far between. I realise it's a small team, and the problem certainly has been mitigated, but getting a little update once in a while is nice. I can't help but compare to Dwarf Fortress, which was mentioned earlier in this thread as well, where the patches and updates might be a year apart, but there are still news coming out to let people know it's being worked on.

I'm not asking for patches, personally. While that would certainly be lovely, I know things take their time and, as long as I know it'll come eventually and it's being worked on, I can be patient. So just make sure there are some news coming out.

My gripes with the game itself mainly relate to the pathfinding, but I'm aware that's already being worked on so until I can see how the new system works I'll just wait and see if it solves the issues I have.

Edit: Woah I've been registered over 3 years? I apparently have no perception of time.

[Koomatzu]

The amount of news has certainly increased since the Lo-Fi team saw an increase in number, but it still feels like news can be few and far between. I realise it's a small team, and the problem certainly has been mitigated, but getting a little update once in a while is nice. I can't help but compare to Dwarf Fortress, which was mentioned earlier in this thread as well, where the patches and updates might be a year apart, but there are still news coming out to let people know it's being worked on

To be honest Mr Badger, there isn't really any news at the moment, since they're mainly working on bugs. Progress is kind of on pause at the moment while they stabilize it, plus it's all already detailed in the patch notes which I post each week, so I wouldn't know what else I can add.

Still though, you may be pleased to know there's coincidentally a small update blog on the front page now

[Badger0]

I already read the blog. And like I said, I know it's improved a lot. Though I'd also say that bugs are probably some of the best news possible. Star Citizen, for example, has its regular "Bugsmashers" thing where they show off some of the more interesting bugs. A funny little story about a testing session gone horribly wrong would be rather amusing to read, even if it's just a couple of lines.

In the end though I admit I'm being a bit nitpicky. I bought the game when it was pretty cheap and I think I've already had at least 100+ hours in it. That's way more time than I spent on so-called "AAA Games" costing €40 or more, so I'd say I've already got my money's worth. I just want more.

PS: I use Raptr too but I can't get it to track Kenshi, despite the fact that it's in their list of trackable games. Any idea if there's a fix for that? (Feel free to PM if you actually have an answer, but would prefer to keep this thread on-topic.)

[philthymcnasty]

My question, is when does it go from alpha to beta?

Like we are at .74.32 or something at the moment. So does this mean we are close to beta, or will it be a while?

I must admit, i am greedy for more features. This game is huge, but at the same time, its empty. it needs more stuff.

It also needs more personality. Like what are the point of the citizens? what is the point of having all this money but nothing to spend it on?

Its starting to come together nicely, but i am curious what the end goal will be. The game went from being post apocalyptic samurai, to being something that is "different".

[Koomatzu]

My question, is when does it go from alpha to beta?

We don't have a date yet. Off the record though, my personal guess would be middle of next year. Personal guess, mind. Chris is the boss man afterall ;p

It also needs more personality. Like what are the point of the citizens? what is the point of having all this money but nothing to spend it on?

I'm curious what you mean by 'what's the point in citizens?'. What do you think the point of them should be, in comparison to other RPGs? I'm interested to know. Something we want to avoid is annoying, pointless chattering from civs. And we also want to avoid the player feeling like they have to talk to every single npc they see, lest they miss some epic opportunity. That irritates me about some RPGs personally, feels like a chore but I always feel compelled to have to talk to every single person I see, even though I'm constantly hitting the skip button and super bored at them droning on at me about their brother's lost sword or whatever.

Civilians will react to you though, if you hurt them/ save them or whatever. They just might not be particularly chatty in normal situations. Personality should come, but I don't think you'll really notice it until beta or at least for a fair few months.

And also, I'm sure I've seen a few other people mention not having anything to spend money on. I'll try and badger Chris on his thoughts about that at some point.

[Chinsei]

well them going around living would be nice not like Skyrim , or Oblivions idea of living which is -follow a path an rinse an repeat every day with little alteration unless a glitch, bug, or the player kills you-

chattering wouldn't be so bad if it was diverse perhaps contained useful info or showed the characters personalities.

one thine games have an issue with when it comes to civilians is that most of them are the exact same personality type.


them discussing their local conditions would be nice triggers for like their opinions on the current weather would be nice if they didn't all say the exact same thigns an share the exact same opinion - something you'll find in mount and blade .

which kinda makes the game dull because none of the NPC really do anything to make the game feel alive.

watching characters make choices and changing their routines on a regular basis. would be nice. perhaps re-acting to news from caravans, or other locals.

watching people re-act i na variety of ways to crimes would be nice. some people would run away if a fight broke out others would stand an watch wondering whats occuring others might try to stop it.

course this all depedns on the diversity of people . and of course would take a long time to program and alot of writing but , for me one enjoyment of a game is just being able to feel the worlds alive and that what I as a character(s) does. actually effects something.

if i become a bandit hunter becoming known for it, an watching trade flourish in an area if i'm good at it would be nice.

or if i become a trader seeing other shops, and towns prosper because i bring them things they need to improve their daily lives.

[philthymcnasty]

My question, is when does it go from alpha to beta?

We don't have a date yet. Off the record though, my personal guess would be middle of next year. Personal guess, mind. Chris is the boss man afterall ;p

It also needs more personality. Like what are the point of the citizens? what is the point of having all this money but nothing to spend it on?

I'm curious what you mean by 'what's the point in citizens?'. What do you think the point of them should be, in comparison to other RPGs? I'm interested to know. Something we want to avoid is annoying, pointless chattering from civs. And we also want to avoid the player feeling like they have to talk to every single npc they see, lest they miss some epic opportunity. That irritates me about some RPGs personally, feels like a chore but I always feel compelled to have to talk to every single person I see, even though I'm constantly hitting the skip button and super bored at them droning on at me about their brother's lost sword or whatever.

Civilians will react to you though, if you hurt them/ save them or whatever. They just might not be particularly chatty in normal situations. Personality should come, but I don't think you'll really notice it until beta or at least for a fair few months.

And also, I'm sure I've seen a few other people mention not having anything to spend money on. I'll try and badger Chris on his thoughts about that at some point.

I want to see them working.

You have all these guys in town, doing nothing. Like it brings back horrible memories of guild wars right after it launched, and everyone hit the godstupid level cap of 20, and just stood around bullshitting all day long.

The citizens, just walk around all day long, and hang out in the bars.

I would like to see them with a job. Like have an industry section in the towns, with people working in them, then at 17:00, they all quit and go to the bar.

What made skyrim, oblivion, and gothic so special, was the illusion that the peasants did something.

I want to see the citizens do stuff. For two reasons:

One, it looks cool

Two, it gives a strategic target.

If i go to war with the holy empire, i will kill the farmers and the bakers first, cut off their food supplies.

I want to see the price of food go up, if dust bandits kill too many farmers, i want to see the price of iron go down, if they iron surplus in catun is too high. Stuff like that. Stuff that has never been done before.

I see a prosperity stat for factions in the diplomacy screen, so i assume that this will be the factions overall health. I see it go down, when i butcher a town and take the items off of citizens, so its connected to them somehow.

[philthymcnasty]

I do not mind if the citizens say nothing at all.

That is normal. Very few people run around making idle conversation. So a setting where everyone who sees you, immediately looks at the ground and ignores you if they have no business with you, is A-OK.

But they just wonder around, and ignore all the corpses of the bandits that i kill in front of the town.

There needs to be like "street sweepers", who pick up corpses and KO'd bad guys, and either take them to the corpse furnace, town hospital, or slaver.

Like if you are a neutral or outstanding citizen, then you go to the hospital. IF you are a bandit or a jackass, then you go to the slaver, and your crap equipment goes to the iron furnace.

Like after a big fight in brink, a guard captain should show up and start shouting orders:

People with swords: stand watch for more attacks! The rest of you clean up this mess NOW!

there should also be village leaders/shoguns. they should send a messenger to let you know to speak with them, and they should be the ones to tell you stuff. Or if you are a no-name, the clerk is the one who tells you stuff.

If you have an outpost, they should offer trade deals. if you have good soldiers, they should request guards. That sort of thing. this is a logical way to establish a quest system. Because this game, the quests are not "slay this Leviathan, raid this dungeon", they are "your contract says you should provide x med kits for x cats, or that you need to guard x town for x days"

[philthymcnasty]

Oh, and the citizens all wear the same stupid clothes too.

I want to see the bright colored faction uniforms return, only this time, as uniforms for their job. Like farmers should wear the straw hat, bakers should wear one color, and the clean up guys should wear the old dust bandit lime green clothes.

If i damage something in town, somebody should run up and start fixing it, and that person should wear a uniform.

Ancient japan had a caste system. Arguably modern japan does too.

So i would at least like to see this type of crap in samuri lord/UC cities.

Really, i am loth to complain much at the moment. I see the game is in alpha. but at the same time, i also think it needs more stuff, like lots more, before it can be classified as finished.

What would make me a little happier, is if not only was there more stuff to kill, but if the holy empire sent guys to bother my base every time i killed off one of their towns.

[Koomatzu]

Ah I see, thanks both.

well them going around living would be nice not like Skyrim , or Oblivions idea of living which is -follow a path an rinse an repeat every day with little alteration unless a glitch, bug, or the player kills you-

I would like to see them with a job. Like have an industry section in the towns, with people working in them, then at 17:00, they all quit and go to the bar.

We should hopefully have a more living world like you described. When the new lands come, towns will be completely restructured, they'll potentially have medical centers, corpse burners, farms and other industry. So people should have jobs and a purpose, as opposed to being mindless drones.

one thine games have an issue with when it comes to civilians is that most of them are the exact same personality type. them discussing their local conditions would be nice triggers for like their opinions on the current weather would be nice if they didn't all say the exact same thigns an share the exact same opinion - something you'll find in mount and blade.

I did notice this with mount and blade. We're trying to work on different personality types, plus the dialogue will be more procedural so people should end up more unique. Sadly I don't think we'll have them discussing local conditions and stuff though, I can imagine it would be too time consuming to be worth it, programming-wise.

if i become a bandit hunter becoming known for it, an watching trade flourish in an area if i'm good at it would be nice.

or if i become a trader seeing other shops, and towns prosper because i bring them things they need to improve their daily lives.

If i go to war with the holy empire, i will kill the farmers and the bakers first, cut off their food supplies.

I want to see the price of food go up, if dust bandits kill too many farmers, i want to see the price of iron go down, if they iron surplus in catun is too high. Stuff like that. Stuff that has never been done before.

This would be amazing. But at this stage, I can't say whether you'll see this kind of thing or not. It all depends how much time they get to add it. And I can imagine that would need a lot of time.

Oh, and the citizens all wear the same stupid clothes too.

I want to see the bright colored faction uniforms return, only this time, as uniforms for their job. Like farmers should wear the straw hat, bakers should wear one color, and the clean up guys should wear the old dust bandit lime green clothes.

I dunno, I see what you're saying about the resemblance between the UC and feudal Japan but... eh the world of Kenshi seems too archaic for uniforms, to me at least. We'll be creating more character variants so there should be more difference in their clothes at least anyway. But hey maybe I'm wrong and Chris will suddenly whack in some uniforms on the sly.

What would make me a little happier, is if not only was there more stuff to kill, but if the holy empire sent guys to bother my base every time i killed off one of their towns.

Oh definitely. There should be assassins and bounty hunters that come after you if you irritate a faction enough. I actually got carried away and already wrote some dialogue for that kind of thing but the AI doesn't exist for it yet.

It's hard to go into too much detail of what will finally be added at this point. I don't think we'll be able to go to the extent of some of your examples of a living world, but there will at least be a big improvement on the current AI anyway.

[philthymcnasty]

Yeah, its hard coming up with gripes for this game, because i have so many hours in it.

IT gets grinding right. Grinding is fun, something that is rare.

So at the moment, i have but two complaints: towns are too robotic, and the faction is too cultish.

the town part, from what you have said, looks like it will be addressed.

As for the cultish faction:

Why are people joining? what is the point of paying the money? is it a bounty? is it a bar tab? is it a debt? overdue child support?

"here is a lump sum of cash, now die for me" that is pretty much what happens when you recruit someone.

So maybe new recruitment options? Like if you talk to a dust bandit boss, and he says "lets fight", and you kill him, a few of his guys should join you. If you lose, but have no one else, then maybe this should be the initiation into the dust bandits?

If the retired captain is hated by the holy empire, and decides to continue the war on his own terms, then people should come to join him if they too, hate the holy empire.

also, if bounty hunters and assassins come for you, then there could be a very awesome Apocalypse now moment, where the assassins join you instead of trying to kill you. if certain conditions are met.

But what gets me, is why is everyone so suicidally loyal to me? What are they after in life? The rescued slaves joining up with you is a great touch, that makes sense. Maybe adding on to it where if you do first aid on someone, they might join up too.

So maybe change up recruitment a bit: have beggars in the town, who have hardly any skills, or maybe are missing a limb, recruit able for free, and rowdy fighting types in the bars, who are looking for adventure.

[Koomatzu]

But what gets me, is why is everyone so suicidally loyal to me? What are they after in life? The rescued slaves joining up with you is a great touch, that makes sense. Maybe adding on to it where if you do first aid on someone, they might join up too.

So maybe change up recruitment a bit: have beggars in the town, who have hardly any skills, or maybe are missing a limb, recruit able for free, and rowdy fighting types in the bars, who are looking for adventure.

This is actually something I've already been working on. It's just not in-game yet ;p

As for the lump sum you pay for recruits in bars... well, I've always just thought of them as desperate mercs with a debt to pay. And why do they stick around? Maybe because it's a harsh, lonely world, doesn't hurt to have some company to survive in it with, right? But there should be more of a variety of 'bar mercs' with slightly more in-depth dialogue soon.

[philthymcnasty]

I can see people staying for the good equipment, and for training.

Like its neat having better equipment then the normal faction people, and i can see that adding prestige for being in the faction.

I can also see people joining to improve their skills.

The other day, because i can solo cannibal camps, i started taking an "apprentice" with me. I would lock them in a cage, then stand guard as they worked on escaping. Then when they were done i had them stick me in the cage.

This is an obscenely fast way to level up the thief skill, and combat.

and to a point, it makes sense and is quite realistic.

I imagine the dialogue would be quite interesting too:

Master: "today i am going to lock you in this cage, this is quite dangerous, but it is controlled. this is the real thing. but i am in control. You must work on escaping, in case you find yourself in this situation, or need to rescue someone"

I can see this type of hardcore training, appealing to someone who either wants to "be the best, that no one ever was" or wants revenge on a particular faction for wronging them, so they seek out the most dangerous person in the wastes to teach them how to survive.

[philthymcnasty]

I finally found something else to complain about... I do not like complaining, i am quite happy with this game BUT , i also understand that this is your product, and you have this thread for feedback purposes. So here comes a long rambling rant...

I hate the map key. I hate having the option to hit M and see all there is to see. but its there so i always end up using it.

I have been playing savage lands a lot, and i love how that game has no map, and forces you to explore with a compass, and the sun as the only means to find your way.

In looking back at kenshi, the map has been more of a curse then a blessing. I did not have to walk around to know where the animal nests are, i can see them as red Xs on the map.

I knew where the cannibal villages were, before i even saw cannibals, because of the map.

I never go to the south west corner of the place holder world, because i can clearly see that nothing is there, on the map.

To give you an idea of where i am coming from:
I liked the map system in morrowind better then oblivion and skyrim. You only found locations from either talking to people, or exploring. Even though oblivion and skyrim are bigger then morrowind, they feel small because the magic compass holds your hand and tells you where everything is.

As such, exploration is not as fun in the newer bethesda games.

So savage lands, despite having some really stupid mining mechanics(just hit the rock for random ore drops) Is an incredibly good exploration game. You have to be smart in the woods, or you freeze to death, or be eaten by a bear. You can get lost super easy, and the night is super cold, and the nasty things come out. But you can find some awesome stuff too.

and all of it is an awesome surprise. If its not an abandoned settlement, then its some non-verbal story telling. Its done really well.

So my recommendation, based on the games i have played, and what i like, is that kenshi tones back on what the map shows us for the new world Red Xs should only show up once they are found, non-major cities and camps should only show up once they are found, and the map should be as secretive as it can be.

on the flip side, the map should also show us the areas we have prospected, and what is there.

There are some good benefits to this: the new map will have more mystery, danger, and intrigue to it, and the players will get more out of it, as they will have to explore every kilometer of it to find the cool stuff.

[Ailan]

Hey devs, just wanted to tell you I'm really enjoying the game... Warts and all! Its really got a lot of depth. I can see that its moving in a forward direction. Keep it up! My favorite SP game in a long while.

[Zeal]

I finally found something else to complain about... I do not like complaining, i am quite happy with this game BUT , i also understand that this is your product, and you have this thread for feedback purposes. So here comes a long rambling rant...

I hate the map key. I hate having the option to hit M and see all there is to see. but its there so i always end up using it... -snip-

Hate to step on any toes here, but this sounds more like a gameplay suggestion than actual critiquing of developement. If you have a suggestion for gameplay tweaks, you should probably post that in gameplay subforum where it belongs, as it has nothing to do with lofi's development practices.

[philthymcnasty]

I finally found something else to complain about... I do not like complaining, i am quite happy with this game BUT , i also understand that this is your product, and you have this thread for feedback purposes. So here comes a long rambling rant...

I hate the map key. I hate having the option to hit M and see all there is to see. but its there so i always end up using it... -snip-

Hate to step on any toes here, but this sounds more like a gameplay suggestion than actual critiquing of developement. If you have a suggestion for gameplay tweaks, you should probably post that in gameplay subforum where it belongs, as it has nothing to do with lofi's development practices.

"Any complaints? This is a safe place to leave constructive criticism about any gripes with the game and it's development. Please keep it calm and reasoned."

"any gripes with the game "

Hence why i put it here.

Granted, its very hard to come up with gripes for the game.

but the map system is a gripe at the moment. it tells too much. it tells you where the nests are, it tells you where the camps are, it tells you where the outposts are.

As such, it has taken away at lest 2-5 hours of exploration, with the current place holder map.

Imagine how much exploration it will rob from the main map when its implemented?

that is a serious flaw. especially for a game like this that is heavy on the exploration. It needs a fog of war or something to counter this.

[Zeal]

I finally found something else to complain about... I do not like complaining, i am quite happy with this game BUT , i also understand that this is your product, and you have this thread for feedback purposes. So here comes a long rambling rant...

I hate the map key. I hate having the option to hit M and see all there is to see. but its there so i always end up using it... -snip-

Hate to step on any toes here, but this sounds more like a gameplay suggestion than actual critiquing of developement. If you have a suggestion for gameplay tweaks, you should probably post that in gameplay subforum where it belongs, as it has nothing to do with lofi's development practices.

"Any complaints? This is a safe place to leave constructive criticism about any gripes with the game and it's development. Please keep it calm and reasoned."

"any gripes with the game "

Hence why i put it here.

Granted, its very hard to come up with gripes for the game.

but the map system is a gripe at the moment. it tells too much. it tells you where the nests are, it tells you where the camps are, it tells you where the outposts are.

As such, it has taken away at lest 2-5 hours of exploration, with the current place holder map.

Imagine how much exploration it will rob from the main map when its implemented?

that is a serious flaw. especially for a game like this that is heavy on the exploration. It needs a fog of war or something to counter this.

That was indicating about the game outside the game.. Not ingame mechanics.. But I won't argue it with you. If someone appropriate decides they need to inform you, i suppose i should leave that to them. But this thread should not be used an excuse to have your gameplay recommendations "seen". This is not the place for that.

Also, your suggestion for the map is personal preference, rather than a flaw in development. Some people might like having it all revealed (I personally don't, and like your idea better, but it really is personal preference rather than a "game development flaw" nonetheless...)