Wagons and naked inventory space

[bk3000]

It is obvious enough what I mean by wagons. Wagons that are pulled either by animal, or several slaves. Traveling merchants should be moving their goods this way. Slavers might use something similar to transport new "untrained" slaves and the items they looted from them.

The carts are gonna be slow. No getting around that. No running quick trips between cities. And without obscene strength, they'll be even slower or might not move at all if over-loaded. But carts are gonna be the only way you move a meaningful amount of inventory of anything. Lots of inventory room, and large stacks of whatever.

"Pull cart" would be a job like any other(but maybe you can't be equipped with a backpack because of the shoulder straps). Then you give move orders. Be careful of over-loading. Besides jacking up the strength requirement for pulling it, you might break it quicker(can be fixed but takes a while).

Now you'll make a juicy target for raiders etc. But then regular traders might be your juicy target if that's the sort of game you are playing. You probably wouldn't have your own wagon until pretty well established, or maybe you stole them(and they may also be marked stolen thus get you attacked if noticed).

They would make it more viable to have multiple bases. A base in ore-rich land, a farming base, etc. Without the means to transport mass cargo, you really just want a single purpose big base. Wagons can fix that.

I've also thought about this - inventory. Why do we have any inventory space at all when not equipped with backpacks? I mean aside from whatever you are equipped with, just how are you gonna carry 2 armor suits and a couple non-equipped katanas? And all while fighting without penalty? Realistically you need a backpack, and probably a small waist pouch(for food/water provisions). But then maybe a small backpack should be starter equipment to compensate.

And you're thinking "Hey wearing a backpack doesn't fit with my image of a samurai" but then they where higher classed than peasants. They could have a someone else carry stuff. Unless of course they where a poor nobody ronin. And anyhow this is just more realistic. Another struggle with reality that fits what Kenshi is. You probably play like this anyhow to a degree.

So one suggestion to make life easier, and the other to make it harder(and almost necessitate the first).

[Mattk50]

Honestly i feel like the bulls that are ingame already fill the slow heavy transport role. They get an 80% reduction on weight in their inventory so they can carry tons of stuff. However, they never change run speed, they are always stuck at 13. Their strength can go up and keep them from going under 13 with heavy loads though.

I feel like having a basic inventory is a "video game" neccessity.

[bk3000]

I feel like having a basic inventory is a "video game" necessity.

It probably is... generally. But then most video games don't have optionally equip-able backpacks. Most games also involve having fewer party/squad members, and most games aren't designed to make your life (especially early on) hell.

Most games let you carry as much stuff as you want. Even if you are limited in "slots", they can stack to near infinity with no consideration of item dimension nor weight. That isn't the Kenshi way. And I happen to like the Kenshi way far better. It makes you think, plan, and adjust. You aren't a one-person warehouse and logistics is a real problem. My "no free inventory" idea is in taking it a bit further to its natural conclusion. Maybe we can have somewhat (not terribly) bigger backpacks to compensate? Or let you turn those items 90 degrees already so they will fit in a spot they'd clearly fit in.

Either way I can't see why/how we are carrying all the stuff we can now. Inventory from nowhere is a concession to casual gaming and it doesn't really fit the way the rest of the game works. We're all used to such things in games(even this one), and are spoiled by them. But we don't actually NEED such a thing, and as such it isn't a "necessity." Lets explore an alternative that DOES fit well with how Kenshi works.

Perhaps we can carry an extra suit of armor(etc) with the same mechanics we now have for carrying people - but for maybe carrying one thing in each arm. Gonna have to drop it when a fight comes along so you can grab your weapon. As for weapons, you can probably keep more of them on your back realistically. Or on your sides when talking smaller weapons. That can take some of the "need inventory space" pressure off.

Optionally wear a backpack so you can loot more and accept the penalty to combat from your choice. But having some people more dedicated to carrying stuff probably is gonna work better especially if those people are also medics etc. Like I say, you probably sort of already do this.

You might also add some limited storage to things like leather pants(because they have pockets) to store small things(not a suit of armor). That wouldn't be available in heavier armor for obvious reasons. So... choices. I'd also like to have a slot around the belt area for a provisions pouch and people should probably start with something there too. So you can carry your food without too much hassle, but no magical inventory space. And lets be clear... what we have now IS magical inventory space.

Plus consider how this would work in other ways. It would be cool. A blacksmith finishes his sword. If he/she isn't wearing a backpack, it doesn't disappear. Rather he/she carries the finished sword in hand to the weapon rack. A laborer carries the chuck of ore in both hands held close to their chest, and carries it to the processor or storage box.

And if that's too much work from the dev standpoint, just make people equip a backpack on laborers. All you really need is a single model of people with their arms out carrying things... it would work for whatever they're carrying. You just render what they have on top. And again the mechanic exists, but with carrying people. That could probably be applied to carrying objects with not too much change(or so I think having not seen your source code). So I don't think it would be bad to implement, but would add to the immersion. It just plain fits with the Kenshi model.

The real problem though is... what to do about things already in inventory when importing? Falls to the ground and they have to pick it up is probably the best option. If they have a backpack equipped with room, just move it in there instead. It would be initially annoying, but a one time thing and people would get over it.

Honestly i feel like the bulls that are ingame already fill the slow heavy transport role. They get an 80% reduction on weight in their inventory so they can carry tons of stuff. However, they never change run speed, they are always stuck at 13. Their strength can go up and keep them from going under 13 with heavy loads though.

As for the bulls, I'm not sure why they would have a weight reduction at all? A really high strength... sure. The strength mechanic alone should be enough to compensate for higher weight. But anyhow what I'm talking about with the wagon is basically a mobile shop counter here (but with bigger stacking). Weight would be the major limiting factor. A bull cannot do what a wagon(perhaps pulled by a bull) can do.

I think the bull's role should be pulling a wagon not replacing the need for one. That's where the strength really shines. Now the wagon would have a big weight reduction anyhow on account of the wheels. Although the wagon itself would have its own base weight even when empty. But the wagon paired with the bull is gonna allow you to move more stuff (and faster) than having people do it. Although to really capitalize on that, you might need to research better wagon designs or the thing might break too often from the weight. The early (shoddy) designs probably don't need more than a person pulling.

[bk3000]

^^expanding on that idea. Wheelbarrels for he laborers. It would help move stuff easier and in higher(stacked) bulk. But not strictly necessary. It would be cool.

Also a stepping stone below the actual wagons... small 2 wheel carts carried behind you. An opportunistic bandit might just take off with it while you are busy fighting off others!