[0.93.3] Can't stealth KO animals

[TacticalMaster]

I don't know if it's a feature in the previous patches, but it was there. But it appears I can't stealth KO animals anymore such as Beak Things, Gorillos, and Iron Spiders.

[Berzerker Jay]

Check the Changelog before reporting new changes as bugs.

[Hatsune_Neko]

0.93.3
-A bunch of map content additions and fixes
-If you are knocked out in an animal nest, its now possible to sneak away when you recover if the animals are all sleeping.
-Pickpocketing from sleeping targets was way too easy. Fixed now.
-NPCs and animals won't immediately go back to sleep after being woken up.
-Can no longer stealth knock-out animals

[TacticalMaster]

I can't find the changelog in the Steam news.

[Darkynd]

Go to steam discussion page then scroll down til you see the "sub forum" list on the right hand side. Changes are currently listed in Updates and Announcements under 93.0

[Berzerker Jay]

I've taken to checking the Changelog on the Launcher. Next tab over from Mods. It always seems to be more consistently up to date.

[Zeal]

Yep, this was a change in the latest update, courtesy of "Why the heck can i Stealth KO a leviathan?!"

[Smiley]

Haha yeah but a leviathan is a bit different from a goat

[Drag00ne]

Yep, this was a change in the latest update, courtesy of "Why the heck can i Stealth KO a leviathan?!"

I was really amazed how quick the developers fixed this and so many real bugs which are also game breaking at a point are ignored. I mean we could really ignore the stealth KO on animals for some time since there are more concerning bugs like animals cannot be picked up and disposed when dead

[Hatsune_Neko]

Yep, this was a change in the latest update, courtesy of "Why the heck can i Stealth KO a leviathan?!"

I was really amazed how quick the developers fixed this and so many real bugs which are also game breaking at a point are ignored.

They not ignored
they just take longer to fix.

[Drag00ne]

Yep, this was a change in the latest update, courtesy of "Why the heck can i Stealth KO a leviathan?!"

I was really amazed how quick the developers fixed this and so many real bugs which are also game breaking at a point are ignored.

They not ignored
they just take longer to fix.

Like 10 versions for the animal bug and 1 post for the leviathan knock out ? Which was already stated that is a different thing to knock out one than a goat. Never mind, maybe I am to tired of unfixed bugs I reported.

[Berzerker Jay]

Not all bugs are equal. Some are easier to resolve than others. Don't grief the development team over that.

I have to admit, I think this solution is a bit incomplete. I can tolerate it for now, but it does seem like it's unreasonably applied to all animals. Why should I not be able to stealth-KO a river raptor when I can stealth-KO a paladin?

I think the better solution is to flag against stealth-KO, instead. This could be a better solution, also, because it offers the potential for other protection against stealth-KO. Maybe a particular helmet might protect against getting cudgeled, but it's so heavy it gives -5 to combat skills?

Either way, stealth-KO against a leviathan is unreasonable, but invincibility against stealth-KO for a river raptor, a goat, or a dog...equally or perhaps even more unreasonable.

[Smiley]

Well im guessing stealth ko animals true changed to false :p so stealth ko'ing leviathans fixed :p.

If everything was this easy even i would be able to make games :p

[Drag00ne]

Well im guessing stealth ko animals true changed to false :p so stealth ko'ing leviathans fixed :p.

If everything was this easy even i would be able to make games :p

I know is not easy to make a game and I said this on this forum. Is just that when you try to build on a broken foundation or unstable ground it always prove disastrous.

[Hatsune_Neko]

every game starts out on broken ground and slowly improves from there.
we get you don't like how the game is being done. but lets keep that discussion in its proper topic area.

but on topic yea the smaller animals should still be able to be knocked out.. if you can catch them and if they don't sense you first. which should be difacult sicne animals main job is keeping a look out for possible prey or predators.

[Zeal]

but on topic yea the smaller animals should still be able to be knocked out.. if you can catch them and if they don't sense you first. which should be difacult sicne animals main job is keeping a look out for possible prey or predators.

Animals are built a bit differently than the humanoids in Kenshi though. The different races have a very smiliar physiology, so your assassination skill would work better being geared towards them.

I don't know how simple it would be to knockout a goat or a dog in the same manner. It may still be doable, but they also have hide and other muscly bits protecting vital spots that are not protected on humans.
I'd imagine it would take a bit different of a technique than what you've been training it for - gearing it towards humanoids. That does beg the question though of how it works on skeletons.

Admittedly though, when I saw that patch note, I had written it off myself as similar to what Berzerker Jay was saying. "10 second fix. I'll sort out the details later." But I could see some justification in it being all animals.

Like 10 versions for the animal bug and 1 post for the leviathan knock out ? Which was already stated that is a different thing to knock out one than a goat. Never mind, maybe I am to tired of unfixed bugs I reported.

LIke other's have said, it really depends on the complexity or simplicity of the bug. This was just a simple variable change that didn't take more than a minute to fix, and sometimes that's all it takes. "Well, i can cross that off the list right now, so why not!" vs something that may have them scratching their heads for weeks on end.

I don't know what animal bug you're talking about, but the one that bothers me most has been around since 0.9 release, where animals first become available. That being they can still be hit by weapon swings when they get knocked unconscious, all the way to death.

Or even a longer one that lasted almost two years, even into the new map: That gate opening bug..

You should also take into consideration that there is a team, all working on different areas. Each bug is assigned to different developers. While one has a list of bugs they need to work on, others may have their own list. There's nothing saying this change has delayed the fix for your animal bug at all, or even shifted any sort of priorities. ALL of it needs to be worked on, and this is just one of the minor easy things that got into the mix very quickly because it was simple.

[Berzerker Jay]

I have to admit I'm not sure what would specifically prevent a dog from being knocked out the same as a human other than its perception of the impending attempt. If given the same opportunity to cudgel a dog as a human, there's nothing protecting the dog that isn't protecting the human.

I suspect that's the big intervention in these attempts, whether someone sees the attempt coming or not.

At the end of the day, even a Leviathan should be susceptible to a knockout attempt. The odds should just be severely stacked against the attempting character. A leviathan would need quite the hit to knock it out, even if the hit was dead on target. So maybe the stealth-KO skill needs to be developed further, and weapon damage should factor in.

If weapon damage does factor in, I would contend that blunt damage should factor in especially to the hit. If a player is using their fist or the butt of their sword's hilt to attempt the knockout, that should be less effective than, say, a heavy club. Meanwhile a heavy club used against a Leviathan should conceivably have at least some potential of achieving a knockout.

So maybe the solution is in how we further develop this game mechanic.

[Hatsune_Neko]

At the end of the day, even a Leviathan should be susceptible to a knockout attempt.

Hulk... SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
least that's what i think it would take.

[Sol Lignum]

I'm surprised to the balls that this little and logical change has raised such a discussion o_O wtf is wrong with you, people? Steath-KO animals should be possible? For this you'd have to -become- an animal, throw all this armour and clothes away, leaving only a small piece of fabric to keep your dong and jugs pressed hard against the rest of the body, cuz slaps while running are quite noisy. Then it is to mask your own smell somehow. Only then, possibly, you'd be able to stealth-KO an animal. As being stated, all wild animal does, is self-preservation, theyre always on edge of see, smell and hear, not only they don't care about politics, religion, moral or existentional dillemas, they has no concept of it, they survive, which puts you as a human into a bad position in the first place. I'd also say that it should be nearly impossible to hide from animals as well. Leviathans, well, even if they don't attack you, i'm sure they'd be still pretty aware of your presence, so no way you could climb on one's back unnoticed and pierce it in the brain or something. If only a slightest chance...

[Drag00ne]

I'm surprised to the balls that this little and logical change has raised such a discussion o_O wtf is wrong with you, people? Steath-KO animals should be possible? For this you'd have to -become- an animal, throw all this armour and clothes away, leaving only a small piece of fabric to keep your dong and jugs pressed hard against the rest of the body, cuz slaps while running are quite noisy. Then it is to mask your own smell somehow. Only then, possibly, you'd be able to stealth-KO an animal. As being stated, all wild animal does, is self-preservation, theyre always on edge of see, smell and hear, not only they don't care about politics, religion, moral or existentional dillemas, they has no concept of it, they survive, which puts you as a human into a bad position in the first place. I'd also say that it should be nearly impossible to hide from animals as well. Leviathans, well, even if they don't attack you, i'm sure they'd be still pretty aware of your presence, so no way you could climb on one's back unnoticed and pierce it in the brain or something. If only a slightest chance...

Finally someone with a sense of realism.

And for the others. I don't know how the Kenshi code is build but in my mind it go like this:
1. you want all the animals to be able to be picked up then you add the same code as they have for the humans to their entities.
2. you want just some animals to be able to be picked up (maybe gorillas are to heavy) then you add a skip if gorillo or something like this
3. you don't want the animals to be picked up the add a skip if for all of them when searching for bodies.

Now I admit it look easy in the plan and depends on how the code was build but it's not so hard since peoples complain about the corpse disposal problem since so many versions. And yes, making animals unable to be knocked out it's so simple as changing a TRUE/FALSE

I have a little bit of understanding of coding so I understand is not easy to make a game but some things are not so hard as they look.