Marriage+Reproduction

The place to request or suggest new ideas and features.
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Remy
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Thu May 09, 2013 4:52 am

No ageing please. I'd hate to lose a character I've spent hours levelling only for them to die of old age.

Marriage and children maybe. It would certainly make you more attached to your base if you had families running around.

Maybe the kids could steal some of your building materials and build a fort somewhere, thus giving them rudimentary engineering skill. :D

And maybe your wife or someone's wife will decide there's too much sand and dirt and plant a rose garden. Which will need water.
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arthoz
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Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:49 pm

On issues of dying from old age, supposed that your character is at least 30 years old and have a lifespan of living up to 70 years that's equal to 40 years of life or about 15,000 gameplay days. I don't think anyone would likely play a game up to 20,000 days or more but I could be wrong. Even if you only live for 10 years that is about more than 3,000 days I guess that's plenty of time too. But taking similar time for children to grow up to at least 16 years of age then it's also illogical to wait for them to grow up.

The option is to make the passage of time faster meaning like 20-50 days of game time increment the age to one year...but then there'll be more discussion of illogical stuff and not wanting character to die and to be replaced. Who knows until such method is implemented like in a mod for testing it might be interesting to see a simulation of a population growth over the years. Put it to the test, make a small mod with a small map of a city with several village in interaction and see if there's any significant outcome to it.

Besides if your character or any other faction members died, instead of replacing him or her with new recruits it might be better to have childrens replacing them. They could inherit a percentage of their trait/skills and may have over time, depending on your outpost installation, received special training. Imagine having a natural born swordmaster recruited into your army at an early age. Function for children could be similar to the Sims Medieval or The Guild series and even Dwarven Fortress was able to implement such thing.




I leave it to the game designer to decide the final word. Trying to implement marriage and reproduction could really make or break a game. In my own view it might be best to keep it simple. Just to assume that there is a population growth in the background where the number will increase or decrease which is affected by the world situation. Units will be spawned or de-spawned according to the world dynamics which also effect how many people would appear to populate the world.

For example a city or village would have a prosperity value (forgive me for the similarity to M&B but they do implement good game design). Being constantly raided or attacked would reduce it to a point that fewer and fewer people are spawned there until it is deserted. Over time if the neighbouring area also suffers depopulation the village would become ruins and later disappear. Make it so like a gridlike growth where high prosperity in neighbouring village would cause the next deserted village to be re-populated and over time with quest for regrowth, trade and faction patrols/guards protecting it the village would grow bigger into small towns and even cities.

In case of invasion or expansion of rival faction influence the village would change ownership or function. Like instead of village they become slaver outpost, trading post, bandit lairs or cannibal camps where patrol or raiding units would spawn out to display the level of their influence. The growth of a faction territorial influence could be better simulated in this method.

As an example a village depopulated by bandits, affected by positive growth of a nearby bandit lair would itself turn into a bandit lair and according to the value of faction wealth or kills and stuff they stole from caravans or other village, the lair will grow into a fortress that will spawn better armed units making banditry a serious threat not to be ignored.

It's simple to have it pre-scripted with place holder like the city, towns and village in M&B but also the growth is dynamic in relation to outside influence. The locations number of location could be randomized so it would fluctuate between the min and max allowable location.




There is also mention of not having any attachment to your villager or people living there. There are hints that slaves and worker would be inplemented. So give them a skill value that would slowly grow over time. For an example you lose a whole mining outpost but manage to evacuate the miners in advance and rebuilt the outpost elsewhere. I do believe the re-construction will be faster and the mining output is just as good than having to recruit new inexperienced worker AND build a new outpost. (PS slaves are expensive commodity too you know. You can't just kill any bandits and hope to easily break them into a obedient and hardworking slaves.)

To add flavour give your workers wives or husbands to increase their loyalty, moral and work efficiency. A married person would more often work hard to support his or her family. Then some of them could have random children just for flavour where later you could furnish them with daycare and schools to futher increase either their loyalty or faction influence to attract more followers in addition to the rate and quality of new recruits spawning in taverns. Talented people are surely attracted to a properous and well managed place.

With presence of auxillary population like this they would be more emphasis on food and water production to feed them too. Lose a food production center and everyone would be severely affected. All the more reason to fight to the death to protect your skilled workers...it is the people who makes the country, not the territory.




Bringing it further to the issues of the population of lords or faction leaders. As of this moment we just see small patrol units in the game. I find it pointless and annoying to fight something without any clear objective...should I just kill every soldiers to defeat a faction? In M&B there's been discussion on the dynamic of faction leaders or lords population.

A faction could have a council or a top leader either scripted to be permanent or could be changed according to the faction's inner politic dynamic. Event's would cause them to leave the faction and join you or other faction, etc...new leader/lords/generals would appear if too many died and vice versa there should be a balance according to the faction's wealth and power. It gives war option like it is better to allow a useless general to escape than murder him/her only to have a better and more dangerous replacement to be spawned by the system.

Or maybe just slaughter all the defeated elite guards so that they won't return to fight back. I've read somewhere that someone healed a captured bandit as training for new recruits to fight it when it woke up. There is mention that the bandit stats also increased with every fight. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't want to turn this in a M&B-ish game but just hoping to provide some suggestion and could be very wrong in my views, for that I must apologize. That and sorry for posting a looong post...I'm having too much free time during weekends...time to go and cook dinner. :lol:

Bug
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Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:05 am

I understand Kenshi is a RPG style game. But I also think your characters should be allowed to create families. It would create incentives other than just build-fight-etc. But not sims style play. It would allow you to quickly create social organizations based on who's related to who, and you can add if they are related somehow they fight better together. Call this skill afinity. It would also allow you to have more people without having to hire them all the time.

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Santaissick
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Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:10 pm

Bug. I'm going to say this only one time: Please use search.

This is the first post I'm reading from you but I noticed you have made many new topics. This has been already suggested and I assume you haven't tried to look if the other things are suggested as well.

You can use the search function and contribute to earlier topics of the same subject if you want but it gets nasty when we have ton of nearly identical conversations.
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dzki
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Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:12 am

do i smell the sims ? :lol:
but it'll be really cool if my character can capture slaves (which will be added if im not wrong) and impregnate them and have tons of kids to expand my dynasty... long live King Tyron the Tyrant
oooops :twisted:
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drakken
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Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:09 pm

immigration lead to invasion, waves and waves of settlers and warriors looking for a new home.
some could be nice, immigrants, some less, invaders..

Xen
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Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:58 pm

So the reason to upgrade your squadmates will be lost. If there will be children, their parents will have to die someday. And i obviously do not want to loose my SWORDMAN TRIBAL 80LVL OVER9000 POWER.

nolastname96
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Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:58 am

I think if the game made it to were you could have a family it might make things a bit more interesting.
It'd be another reason to protect your town/outpost and make sure your family has what they need to survive.
Maybe instead of the kids dying they could be captured by bandits and you have to rescue them or something.
It'd definetely make everything look more lively around the towns.

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PnzrNorm
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Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:29 am

arthoz wrote:For example a city or village would have a prosperity value (forgive me for the similarity to M&B but they do implement good game design). Being constantly raided or attacked would reduce it to a point that fewer and fewer people are spawned there until it is deserted. Over time if the neighbouring area also suffers depopulation the village would become ruins and later disappear. Make it so like a gridlike growth where high prosperity in neighbouring village would cause the next deserted village to be re-populated and over time with quest for regrowth, trade and faction patrols/guards protecting it the village would grow bigger into small towns and even cities.
This sounds like a simple, yet still dynamic, system that could benefit the future implementation of RNG'ing settlements.
By simple, I mean it might be simpler to create a mesh map based on the world map that remains hidden representing population density and/or potential for growth than say, having n-tuple variables that play tog-o-war with each other across all of the RNG'd settlements.

Vindicar
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Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:29 pm

Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:04 pm

I've heard/read somewhere marriage and such frivolitys are not planned.

However I feel the urge to ask for this, and more, again.

What I'd love to see and what might give a really greater depth to the game is LIFE TIME and BREEDING.

basically :

- Limited life time.
- Marriage and heir/legacy system
- Make it deep with affinity management and stuff or simple as Man and women sharing the same shack or house get a chance to give birth to a child.
- Once children are "adult" they either join the band or leave to live on theire own (joining random factions, or just joining an other town)


Then why not :

- Education (crusader king 2 and its "guardian" system comes to mind, basically you choose who will raise and educate the child : his father, his mother or anyone else...)
- Genetic and traits
- Events or quests around those systems (the evil brother, legacy from a mysterious parent, etc...)
- add (bad) things like raping or (good things) adopting (those homeless child might turn bad otherwise...)


thanks for reading

/discuss

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Hatsune_Neko
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Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:21 pm

merged with relevant topic
please use search
thank you.
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Vindicar
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Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:39 pm

Remy wrote:No ageing please. I'd hate to lose a character I've spent hours levelling only for them to die of old age.

This is something you should try before fearing it.

It's the kind of feature that gives you incentives to do more stuff and/or adds some tension. (better hurry to conquer the world if you are allready 55y/o )

Adds depth and good sensations, really.


And someone mentionned years are quite "long" to play anyway, you should have more than enought time to enjoy your allmighty warrior before he needs a break !

xzcion
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:46 am

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:21 am

If it was my game to code, I'd manipulate the already existing 'population' stat for each town.

Instead of them representing the actual number of animated characters in each town, it would instead be the actual population of that entire outpost/town/city with the guards/shopkeepers just being the interactive npcs.

Add some children/old people (very short, small headed citizens for children and some with horrible posture and grey hair) citizens... (and now I have an excellent idea for how I'm going to plastic surgeon my entire squad when I get home.)

Then when attacks happen and guards/citizens/shopkeepers/etc die, are recruited from the inns, carried off by cannibals or form trade caravans and patrols, they get replaced with a new model and the population pool decreases.

Over time a prosperity type number, like was mentioned above, could determine the population growth rate of the town. This could take into account trade, how much bread/water the town has in stores, etc. Increased population = increased use and cost of bread/water.

All towns could then function the same way, and require that all towns have fields, grain silo's, generators, wells, etc.

For factions without an outpost or town they can have the exact same setup modeled in the background to determine how frequently their patrols spawn.

No idea what will actually be implemented. Fun to speculate.

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PnzrNorm
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Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:11 am

For all that haven't heard the news previously, or didn't find it in search, ageing and reproduction are confirmed will NOT be in Kenshi.

Xen
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Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:07 am

Somebody sad that it will take ~15,000 of ingame days to die from ageing.
Same person said that possibly nobody will play for such a long time, so why not to add such a cool feature?
Reason is: its one of the most retarded way to spoil game code and time. Make a feature which NOBODY will even see, but which is VERY REALISTIC AND INTERESTING!11
Thats why there should not be shit like ageing.

gremgil
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Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:11 pm

Hi to all, I'm new but I would like to add my contribution too.

Let's put this theme in another way (sorry if I repeat something already said, but haven't had the time to read all the previous posts):

1. romance (morale boost, some dedicated dialogues and interactions, even basic could do)
Imagine your favourite couple of characters wandering in the desert, suddenly attacked by the bandits, that beat the man down and kidnap his beloved one (female characters more valuable for bandits). Imagine waking up, crawling to the nearest town, healing up, training, hiring some help and running to the rescue! I would absolutely love to be part of a scenery like that...
It's not necessary to have a reproduction and an aging system, IMHO.

2. there could be four different ages, fixed, without any aging script:
- children (basic controls, spawned as orphans and you can adopt them), rare and precious, boosting the morale of your settlement... provided you keep them safe!
- full-grown adults and young adults (not really different, just younger faces), the standard kenshi characters
- elderly (basic controls), that boost the knowledge progresses of your settlement

I think this could be feasible and an added value to the game. What do you think? ;)

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Aereto
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Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:19 pm

I'm a bit on the fence, since adding generational succession adds up loads up so much gameplay mechanics that I can't grasp yet.

I'm alright leaving this one as an optional and possibly official mod for those who want to have the world run a little differently, affecting the difficulty of the game as a whole.
gremgil wrote: - children (basic controls, spawned as orphans and you can adopt them), rare and precious, boosting the morale of your settlement... provided you keep them safe!
- full-grown adults and young adults (not really different, just younger faces), the standard kenshi characters
- elderly (basic controls), that boost the knowledge progresses of your settlement
Considering that it takes a long time for 365 days to pass, children are apt to stay children unless we're talking different sentient species/races.

The elderly sounds like that they are the best researchers/engineers/craftsmen in the game.
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PnzrNorm
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:45 pm

Aereto wrote:Considering that it takes a long time for 365 days to pass, children are apt to stay children unless we're talking different sentient species/races.

The elderly sounds like that they are the best researchers/engineers/craftsmen in the game.
T'would be really cool to see different innate starting levels for attributes dependent on what age the character is.
As you mentioned, since it would take an extremely long time for 365 days to pass, then its safe to say that nobody is going to be ageing before they take a blade in the gut.
So things like "children can't raise their Strength or Endurance above a certain level due to age" or "newly spawned/created characters start with higher or lower than normal stats dependent on age" could add a little more randomization to the characters encountered in the Kenshi-verse

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Senjin
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Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:52 pm

I agree guys !
Marriage & breeding will give to current game another shape. Let me give an example of Crusader Kings 2. People are not really about to lead armies across continents instead they care about their families and relations. That's why is CK2 game so catchy and across Paradox titles it top-notch selling game IMO.

I know that there are problem to implement kids in game. But hey what about to choose a couple and this couple will hide inside a dwelling and will be unplayable let's say for time.
After some time when new born baby will grow up - it will leave this dwelling wih some mixed abilities gained from parents same as appearance ( Tall father - Tall mother - Giant descendant )

Sorry guys for my english but I hope u will catch that what I mean :)
Cheers !

swillo
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Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:28 pm

Since the forums have been quite for a while I will jump in on this necroed thread. Just to have some thing to talk about.
PnzrNorm wrote:For all that haven't heard the news previously, or didn't find it in search, ageing and reproduction are confirmed will NOT be in Kenshi.
So just to wax on and not do my work today.

The main problem with kids in Kenshi is simple. TIME.
9 months to have one 16- 18 years before they are playable. Since Kenshi doesn't have a time warp feature there is no way to get a playable character from that method without months of real time game play. I have been playing this game for over a year and if I had started a new baby since that time they would only now be at a playable age.

New population needs to come from an outside source. That might be an imagined source where they just suddenly spawn in town having arrived from where ever they came from. Or as I suggested in a different post they could come in from the edges of the maps as Pilgrim caravans. travel around to different towns and some would stay and some would travel on to other towns.

These pilgrims could/should contain a mix of characters. shop keepers, crafters, guards, ect...
And age could be a factor as was pointed out last year. Younger recruits could have a faster learning curve, while older ones would come with more skills already established.

I don't think tracking time with respect to age is really worth while as the ages would not change enough in the game to make it worth the effort. But even without age you can always use the character creator to create a family with children, you have to hire them from the bar first but then you can change them to match the child you always wanted. (honey why is our new son half shek????)

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