Improving Great Combat

Discussion of gameplay issues and experiences, game balance and suggestions for tweaks and modification of the existing systems.
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What do you think of the suggested additions?

Much want!
5
38%
I like them.
5
38%
Tweak them and I'll like them. (post desired tweaks)
1
8%
I'm currently undecided. (I might change my vote later)
0
No votes
I like some of them. But as for the others... (post in the thread).
1
8%
Not sure about these. Maybe they'd be OK, but I don't believe so.
1
8%
Would prefer it if the Devs didn't add these ideas.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 13
Mask
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:57 pm

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:26 am

Decided to make a thread devoted to possible mechanical and aesthetic improvements to combat. There aren't spoiler tabs on this forum which makes things a little harder to sort, unfortunately.



Features


Grappling
When you attack unarmed or with short weapons, you are likely to initiate a grapple. With a grapple, 5 things can happen.

1. The grapple attempt can fail. Basically, it misses--and maybe the guy who you tried it on strikes at you.

2. You throw them to the ground. If the Devs were already thinking of having guys knocked prone, this wouldn't require extra coding.

3. You strike them and continue to grapple. This would be easiest with short weapons.

4. Neither of you succeed at striking or throwing each other, and keep grappling. While grappling, neither of you can move from the spot till you break free. You might also get a defence bonus against other enemies, since they're being careful not to hit their pal.

5. One of you slips free, or you both disengage. If you tell your character to move somewhere, they try to disengage. Same for the enemy.
----
Hopefully, this could be done using a few simple animations, and could make battle and weapon reach more tactical.

Among your Squad Tactics (AGG, DEF, EVA), you would have a GRP option. It would make your character(s) try to initiate wrestling more often.

Counters
When your enemy tries to strike you, you strike them instead. Counters would happen if the enemy rolls badly on defence/attack, or if they attack people who are more skilled. Counters can be blocked or dodged, and would work against grapple-attempts.

There'd be five kinds of counters.

Preempt: As your enemy prepares to swing, you strike quickly and hit them first, interrupting their attack. If your enemy has a slow weapon, this would be a more likely counter.

Master-Cut: A master cut is when you block and strike in the same motion. For the animation, I'd suggest using Mount and Blade Warband's Chamberblock/Riposte as an example.

Counter: The most commonly seen form of countering in games. You block or dodge your opponent's strike, then immediately strike back.

The Counter-Counter: When you are fighting a skilled enemy, and you counter them: There's a chance they will in turn counter you (with any of the other methods). This could happen several times in a row.

Grapple Counter: You counter your opponent by attempting to enter a grapple with them. This can be done as a Preempt (while they're preparing their strike), Master-Cut, Counter, or Counter-Counter.

Disarming
When you are struck powerfully in the weapon-arm, you would drop your weapon. If you barely manage to block a powerful strike (such as from a heavy weapon), you might drop your weapon (especially if you're unskilled).

If Disarming and Grappling were added: When you grapple someone while unarmed, there's a chance you will take and wield their weapon when the grapple ends.

Pain
Your Endurance(?) stat would decide how much pain effects you (also certain items like alcohol could). If you have low pain tolerance, then getting hurt lowers your attack, defence and strength stats. If you have high pain tolerance (and/or if you're high), it only effects your stats a little.

If a character is in too much pain, or feels a lot of pain suddenly (severed limb), there'd be a chance of them going into shock.

Martial Arts
Rather than having it only as an unarmed skill, and going through the difficulties of balancing it with weapons... have characters sometimes throw an elbow, kick, punch, knee or head-butt while sword-fighting. If disarming was added, unarmed fighting would become more useful, of course.

Martial Arts could also apply to grappling. It would help you initiate grapples successfully, make you more likely to win at grappling, and make it easier to break out of grapples.

Aesthetic


Thrust
A thrust animation would be nice. And a block for the thrust.


Any other ideas that belong in the first post? Also, do you think the current ideas should be tweaked? in what ways if so?

If certain features seem like they'd be bad for the gameplay, please comment in the thread so we can discuss merits and faults.
Last edited by Mask on Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TornadoTitan
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Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:15 am
Location: Behind you... Always.

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:59 am

I like:
Counter:
Only the classic counter though

Morale:
Chris already "hinted" at this type of system in a post he made about the three levels of AI Programing.

lvl1: Stupid robots that do whatever you say

lvl2: Have feelings of fear and uncertainty, and will runaway and such against impossible odds

lvl3: Will show love and loyalty to you and fight even though it means death (obviously lvl2 could still happen)

the wise and thought inspiring line he adds:
How do you show lvl3 without making it seems like lvl1?

My rant ladies and gentlemen, is done lol.
Wanna be an awesome person and give Chris monetary support for the game?
Donate with paypal to nojunk@lofigames.com.
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Mask
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:57 pm

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:01 am

Figured Morale would be planned. Just added it in for good measure. Might take it out now.

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Cjimmortal
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:47 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:09 pm

Many of these fighting mechanics would add a greater deal of depth to the combat system, but I am not sure how many of them Chris would be able to program into the game. The mechanics regarding melee would have to be dependent on a lot things, such as grappling having to do with your strength as well as martial prowess.

Martial arts is a very interesting idea because it could add a crap ton of things to game, such as specific martial art styles that are dependent on your stats, but also add more interesting character dynamics when it comes to fighting. A swordsman versus a trained, but unarmed fighter would be interesting for example because the swordsman would be incredibly dexterous, thus forcing the unarmed man to be just as quick if not more so in order to disarm him or slip past his defenses.
Deserve victory.

Mask
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:57 pm

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:56 pm

The programming aspect should be quite doable... though maybe some design difficulty in just getting things to play out in the correct orders and look good. Animation might be harder, such as the grappling one (I'd be OK with grabbing the shoulder)--but it shouldn't be any harder than what's in the game so far (I'm surprised they synced the models together so well).

Yeah, it would add a lot of play-styles. Those who are defensive and rely on counters, those who are aggressive and like to grapple with a short weapon, those who keep their enemies at bay with a long weapon, etc..

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