Tried the demo and heres my feedback

[kotelo]

I saw this game in Steam Greenlight yesterday and today I decided to DL and test the demo. So heres what I think of it: The camera controls are so freaking terrible that the game is virtually impossible to play. In “HELP” section the game says that I should look at the signs of the houses and look for a tavern (or whatever) to look for companions. But the camera controls are so god damn awful that it takes a lot of patience and good luck to get the camera where you want it, so that you could actually see what you want to see. I just cant belive how someone can overcome this horrible camera controls to actually try and play this game. As far as I can see it, at this stage this game is totally and utterly unplayable.

Just my two cents.

[Blxz]

Ermehgerd! Terrible.

I don't notice the bad controls myself. Can you elaborate? Are you using middle mouse button (I think thats what I use?). Pressing and holding that should allow you to rotate freely. Zooming is done with the mousewheel as well. It's quite smooth for me.

Again, elaborate a bit. This game is in Alpha and if you feel something is so terrible then you are in the best position to get Chris, the creator, to change it. But he needs more details before he can fix any problems you might be having.

[Captain Deathbeard]

The odd person says this now and then, but nobody ever gives any specific reasons or details so I can't improve it. To me it seems like an ordinary overhead RTS camera, arrows to move, mouse wheel to zoom, middle mouse to rotate.

I can't improve it when I don't see a problem with it, so its up to you to give me exact details of what you think is wrong with it. This is your chance, you are speaking direct to the developer, give me specifics and I will do my best to improve it for you.

[djfabiokk]

chris, maybe an option to rotate the camera holding right click could fix the problem.

[Scotterius]

chris, maybe an option to rotate the camera holding right click could fix the problem.

Is this not the way the middle mouse button works now? I know that other games use the right mouse button, but I like it the way it is now attached to zoom. Maybe a third person view for the character selected (or the first in group) that the camera returns to when the middle button is released would be more intuitive for you?

Most modern games don't give you the freedom to move your camera independently from your character, this might be what is causing some confusion.

[Captain Deathbeard]

the right mouse button is needed for giving commands, I cant really combine left+right into one button.

[Snake956]

I can easily control the view. No0thing is hard. press some keys, move a bit the mouse whil keeping the middle button down. Nothing is hard in that. of course some people can have difficulties using some controls, but thats a problem that we see in every single game.

it should be possible to have multiple way to control the camera (or not!) for those who have difficulty using the current system so they can enjoy the game.

Now Ill also give my feedback.

Personally, when I saw the game on Steam greenlight, I tough it was a 3rd person game, where you control only one character, and you can give order to other character. But its not that way! Im not saying its a bad idea! That combined with the way that the view is managed, we can see the great battles easily and its a easier way to manage large group of character.

When I downloaded the demo, I just looked a bit at the option that show on startup, and I didnt noticed it was possible to change the resolution. So I played the game in 800x600 during 2 days, the graphics were crappy on my 1920x1080 screen. Then I noticed I could change the resolution. Having bad graphics doesnt stop me from playing a game, gameplay come first, game system is second, graphics is third.

This game also remember me a lot of the flash game named caravaneer, where you are the leader of a caravan and you have to trade multiple things in a desertic and post-apocalyptic world. This game was a bit complicated, but I had a lot of fun with it. I think it will be the same with this game.

A game doesnt need gigantic budget to give a lot of fun to its player. Simply look at Minecraft. His development had almost no budget and today, its one of the most sold game ever made! All a game need is a good idea!

I propably said a lot of things, and some a propably lost (always happen when I say things XD) and Im sure I made a lot of typo and other error in my text (Im living in Quebec and speak French ) but thats what I am thinking about the game.

If my rating have an importance (or not! but I dont care), Ill give a 8/10 for the gameplay, 6/10 for the graphics, 8/10 for how the game works (economy and other similar things) and 9/10 for the game itself!

The only thing that sucks, is that I need to wait 9 more days before I can buy the game! because tranfering money to PayPal is taking so much time...

So now, I typed too much, and lost some gameplay time! So ill get back to gaming now.

Cya

P.S. I think I could see this game with a multiplayer feature.

[Diruk]

You know, you could purchase the game directly through the site with a credit card....

Going to look into caravaneer btw, never heard it before.

Be sure to check out the other topics in the forum, you'll be surprised on some of the suggestions to the game.

[Elazul]

I think its the fact that the camera drops off the edges of cliffs and goes under the ground that annoys me the most when trying to stay orientated on my characters as when it does that it can be a bit disorientating. Also, I had a bug once when it was getting into a new area where it randomly went off to the right non-stop and wouldn't go back until I quit the game and came back.

So summary:

(1) Camera drops off the edges of cliffs and goes under the ground at times which can be disorientated
(2) Camera can be a bit "jerky" at times and seems a tad bit overresponsive(perhaps options to allow us to control the speed which it can move around?)
(3) Options to allow us to reverse the direction to move the mouse to move the direction of the camera. I'm completely used to having it backwards from what it is right now and its taking quite a bit for me to get used to it.

Otherwise, its a great game for being in such an early stage of development!

[kotelo]

(1) Camera drops off the edges of cliffs and goes under the ground at times which can be disorientated

This.

(2) Camera can be a bit "jerky" at times and seems a tad bit overresponsive

Also This. The camera is INSANELY fast.

There are also cases where the camera just seem to keep on moving to some direction even if don’t press any key. This combined with those two mentioned above makes it impossible for me to do virtually anything in the game without loosing my patience. Judging from the feedback that I got from my post, this may sound like overreacting to some of you when I say that this game is completely unplayable for me, but its also the truth. I also asked my friend to try this game and he also managed only to frustrate himself with the camera control.

Im also genuinely pretty shocked to find out that many of you cant seem to find anything wrong with the camera controls.

[djfabiokk]

(1) Camera drops off the edges of cliffs and goes under the ground at times which can be disorientated

This.

(2) Camera can be a bit "jerky" at times and seems a tad bit overresponsive

Also This. The camera is INSANELY fast.

There are also cases where the camera just seem to keep on moving to some direction even if don’t press any key. This combined with those two mentioned above makes it impossible for me to do virtually anything in the game without loosing my patience. Judging from the feedback that I got from my post, this may sound like overreacting to some of you when I say that this game is completely unplayable for me, but its also the truth. I also asked my friend to try this game and he also managed only to frustrate himself with the camera control.

Im also genuinely pretty shocked to find out that many of you cant seem to find anything wrong with the camera controls.

The camera system does need some tweaks but its fine, give it time.

[Diruk]

Did your friend try it on his own computer or on yours?
Do you play Shogun 2 or any other game that goes by command view?
(shogun 2 has the fog of war option, makes quite the epic gaming btw)

Do you play on pc a lot?

System information might as well be useful.

[kotelo]

The camera system does need some tweaks but its fine, give it time.

As far as I can see, its not fine, its not even close to fine. I just tried it again and I actually hate it more now than I did before.

Did your friend try it on his own computer or on yours?

He tried it on my comp.

Do you play Shogun 2 or any other game that goes by command view?

No I dont play any TW games and Im not sure what do you mean with "command view".

Do you play on pc a lot?

Pretty much I would say. All my gaming is done on PC since I dont even own a console.

System information might as well be useful.

Win7
i7 2600K @4.2GHz
4GB RAM
GTX 470
Intel SSD

[Jaiml]

I have gotten accustomed to the camera system, but it is clunky and does need some work.

One thought I had today was: It would be nice to have the option to "lock" it on a character and have the camera follow him around from behind. Especially in towns, it would mean much less camera adjustments. I could just move the character and the camera would always be looking where he is.

By "lock" I mean have it return to that position, but I would want it to allow me to control the camera and look around with the center button. Then snap back to the "behind view" when I release the center button.

If I right click to center it on another group member I would want it to snap to his behind view on the selected character.

Those are my views on something that might simplify the camera.

[Diruk]

I'm using a Win 7 64.
No problem whatsoever.

The possible answer to your problem is that there might be something going on with your computer and not the game. Hence the question if he tried it on his PC.

When was the last time you cleaned your keyboard and mouse?


Command view as in the regular real strategy games. TW is a well known RTS/turn based title, which I recommend you to try out sometime. I have played a lot Shogun 2 and DoW 2 lately, which if my memory is correct have a basic camera movement foundation just as this one. (WASD and middle mouse button navigation) Hence, the reason I didn't have a problem with the game.

Which RTS games have you played lately, maybe you're just not comfortable with it.

[kotelo]

There are also cases where the camera just seem to keep on moving to some direction even if don’t press any key.

This one actually turned out to be my mistake since my mouse was in corner of the screen (propably due to the disorientation that this game sometimes gives me) locking the camera roll on. So that one was my bad.

EDIT:

The possible answer to your problem is that there might be something going on with your computer and not the game. Hence, the question if he tried it on his PC.

I dont think thats the problem no.

When was the last time you cleaned your keyboard and mouse?

This one also is pretty far fetched.

[Diruk]

Jai,
did you try the key short cuts for your character (i.e. 1,2,3, etc?)
I would much rather have a lock on character through left double clicking on their portrait.

[kotelo]

Which RTS games have you played lately, maybe you're just not comfortable with it.

Since I dont play RTS games, closest to a RTS that I play must be Mount & Blade, I tought this was going to be pretty close to it but I guess I was wrong. Or maybe it might be close to M&B but I wont be playing it because it seems to demand first person or third person kind of sharp movement in towns and mix it with (wild) RTS kind of camera control. To me its like putting a Ferrari engine to a Lada and trying to drive it like a proper sports car.

EDIT: Ok I give up, its not a game for me. Now I almost regret that voted it on Steam.

[Diruk]

Since I dont play RTS games, closest to a RTS that I play must be Mount & Blade. I do play some strategy games but they are TBS.

Can't really be sure about this entirely, but in the assumption that your friend may be alike.
This is probably simply a comfort issue. You're not used to the regular RTS camera movement.

Give it sometime, I'm sure you can get used to it.
(Mount and Blade:Warband ftw! Although I really hate the camera movement in the mods where the battles continue after you have been knocked unconscious. I shall master it someday.)

EDIT: Don't give-up! If the fellowship had given-up Mordor would have overrun England.... which it actually did in reality, but DON'T GIVE UP ON IT! Breaveheart would smack you in the face if you did!

[djfabiokk]

Which RTS games have you played lately, maybe you're just not comfortable with it.

Since I dont play RTS games, closest to a RTS that I play must be Mount & Blade, I tought this was going to be pretty close to it but I guess I was wrong. Or maybe it might be close to M&B but I wont be playing it because it seems to demand first person or third person kind of sharp movement in towns and mix it with (wild) RTS kind of camera control. To me its like putting a Ferrari engine to a Lada and trying to drive it like a proper sports car.

EDIT: Ok I give up, its not a game for me. Now I almost regret that voted it on Steam.

If you want to leave, then go ahead, the door is open, but remember that the game is still in alpha, and we all know camera needs some tweaks, there are a lot of updates coming.

Hope you change your mind.