Complex Combat

[Phaser Rave]

Currently, it's too tedious to pick out which units are being attacked in a closely packed group of 20 allies and 5+ hostiles, especially when the hostile just picks a different character to target right after you set his current target to block. It'd be much more troublesome if we ever get to have massive battles.

To remedy this, it'd be cool if we could give orders to our characters on how to engage in combat. It would be more complex than selecting one fighting stance (block, attack), and would be most useful in larger squads (I'd have to say 10+, especially if we ever break the 20 barrier).

You'd be able to customize certain orders, and could make as many as you like. These could be saved for later, and even reconfigured whenever you want. You could also assign them to multiple units at once.

When creating an order, you tell the unit how to act before, during, and after combat.
Right now, it'd be simple. I think the best way to explain it is through the following example:

Rave and his team engages a few bandits in combat. One bandit targets Rave. Rave automatically switches to block mode. Rave's bandit decides to attack Tako instead. Rave automatically switches back to attack mode, and helps Tako finish this bandit. After all hostiles in a certain radius from the unit running this order (Rave) are gone, Rave will begin healing himself and his allies, and then non-squad members.

Basically, you set a simple program for your units to follow. Right now, there wouldn't be too many options - you could switch from offensive to defensive, weapon 1 to weapon 2, and it could be used to manage when the character should attempt to flee from combat.

This would be most useful if we ever get to have more than 20 units, and more options in combat.

[Tolwrath]

You ever play Baldur's Gate 2? (At least I think it's this game)? In it you could completely enable or disable a character's AI. But you could also customize what actions the AI for each character can take with a series of checkboxes. As I recall it was stuff like when to use certain abilities, when to run, when to heal. And it was a very useful feature. But if you're not careful about implementing this sort of thing, you end up with a game that plays itself like FF12.

No matter what customization you give an AI, you have to always make sure that the player is still needed. Yes I support customizeable AI, but please be careful not to take away the need for the player's control.

[Phaser Rave]

You ever play Baldur's Gate 2? (At least I think it's this game)? In it you could completely enable or disable a character's AI. But you could also customize what actions the AI for each character can take with a series of checkboxes. As I recall it was stuff like when to use certain abilities, when to run, when to heal. And it was a very useful feature. But if you're not careful about implementing this sort of thing, you end up with a game that plays itself like FF12.

No matter what customization you give an AI, you have to always make sure that the player is still needed. Yes I support customizeable AI, but please be careful not to take away the need for the player's control.

I agree, but some sort of automation is required when you're managing hundreds of units, as everyone is already aware.

[Marilous]

I'd definitely like to see this happen, having a tab for character behavior when you aren't controlling them would set up a whole new layer of planning for fights on both the large and current scale.

[Potocobe]

I think separate ai commands for each squad would be unwieldy. The basic AI decisions during combat will surely be addressed to the point that we don't need to micromanage or pre-micromanage them. Would like to be able to target an enemy and know that my target won't switch until that enemy is dead or disabled.

[Phaser Rave]

I think separate ai commands for each squad would be unwieldy. The basic AI decisions during combat will surely be addressed to the point that we don't need to micromanage or pre-micromanage them. Would like to be able to target an enemy and know that my target won't switch until that enemy is dead or disabled.

Then you wouldn't have to program it to do so. In my example, they don't.

[Meynolt]

I understand your desire for this, but if it's 20 v 5, there's probably no need to micromanage - just fast forward, and medkit any small amount of dmg you receive back up.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing an option where squadies enter blocking mode when they are below a certain percentage (You'd need to be careful using it though, because if everyone starts blocking, none of the enemy are going to die!)

Edit: P.S. I do like the idea that it only opens up when your squad hits a certain size. Maybe some kind of Leadership options. And as the leader gains more experience, the squad members could gain extra benefits (whether it be better combat ability, experience gain, or just improved ai ability like this).

[Phaser Rave]

I understand your desire for this, but if it's 20 v 5, there's probably no need to micromanage - just fast forward, and medkit any small amount of dmg you receive back up.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing an option where squadies enter blocking mode when they are below a certain percentage (You'd need to be careful using it though, because if everyone starts blocking, none of the enemy are going to die!)

Edit: P.S. I do like the idea that it only opens up when your squad hits a certain size. Maybe some kind of Leadership options. And as the leader gains more experience, the squad members could gain extra benefits (whether it be better combat ability, experience gain, or just improved ai ability like this).

That's a good idea.
Also, I think that the player should compensate for the above example. They couldn't have every character using blocks, or else they'd never kill anyone. There could be front-line characters that are more likely to block than your other soldiers. Of course, I think that should be totally up to the player to figure out, so that everyone could design a strategy which suits them most.

[iSuck345]

Wait wait wait, I don't remember well, but no one has suggested a set to be used to atack certain enemies every time a group of them is encountered, right? Also I don't know more or less what I'm typing, but I think I know enough.

[Phaser Rave]

I don't mean like that. I mean like, you dictate a fighting style for your character to use no matter which enemy he encounters. His fighting style could be as simple as running away from any danger to avoid damage.

[Smiley]

Well i believe i am having troubles with it at this early stage with 20vs 6 atm

basically my whole group runs to them we ko a few right away. then what happens at the same time the enemy hits like 15 of mine with there hits since running into em means ur tightly packed offc this isnt a big problem now but like Rave said imagine u having 200 people tigtly packek instead of ko ing a few ull be koing em by the dozens and if ur outnred they will ko u by the dozens :p


Offc i'v read somewhere that Chris said to use doors as choke points (so if u put 1 char in a doorway no other enemy can cross)
he might work something out so u cant be to packed together or run through a fight getting a blade sweep unwillingly :p


Can u imagine these battles with friendly fire ON u would ko ur own units by the dozens aswell :p


So some better controll over there actions besides defense or attack are needed, and i believe ive heared Chris say it (the cb system) will be a bit more then just block or attack ==> got to HOME then the video on youtube its roughly in the 16th minute they talk about it