Mechanical Arms are Historic Realities

[Phasmatis75]

Hi all,

A while back I saw a discussion about how mechanical arms wouldn't be realistic for the world, because of the time setting and technological evolution of the world. While this argument sounds reasonable there are a few things to take into consideration. First many samurai movies do have people with metallic replacement limbs. It isn't immersion breaking it is just a technology that got developed in that world.

The coolest part is that they have existed in real life all the way back to Rome from 218-201 BC. A general named Marcus Sergius got his hand severed and crafted himself a new arm. It wasn't super sophisticated, but he could use a shield and had some minor movements with it.

Now fast forward to the 16 century and enters a French man by the name of Gotz von Berlichingen. Canon blast sends a sword through his arm and he decides he likes warring so much he will just build himself a new arm.

(source: Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_18429_6- ... nator.html)

So I don't think mechanical limb replacement is that unrealistic since well it happened.

[Mask]

Admittedly, low-tech mechanical arms are quite a possibility. High-tech futuristic ones should be rare and very hard to produce, with options for biological limbs as well.

At the lowest tier, you could just attach a hook-like tool to your stump, and try and block/grab/stab with it.

[Old Man Liver]

If I happen to find myself suddenly armless or legless, I think the first thing i would do is attach a hook!

Not only could it be used for some gruesome combat, but depending on what models you have, hooks can be used for moving hay or firewood, lifting manhole covers, or even crocheting if your using a 5mm, or something around that size!

[Blxz]

or even crocheting if your using a 5mm, or something around that size!

[killerx243]

I like the idea of the "low tech" limb replacements, like the Roman's metal hand being the standard replacement. More expensive then a hook but you can have it hold a sword or the front part of the bow. Wouldn't be as useful if the arm was amputated above the elbow as it would limit sword strikes to be like a cheap action figure (the ones where you squeeze their legs together and it causes the arm to swing downwards).

What if the basic design had a chance to drop your weapon in battle. Kind of like how action figures hold things (hand in a "c" shape) you can potentially knock whatever they are holding out of their hand in melee combat. As you progress in developing better replacements the chance gets less and less.

As you research more and more into limb replacement (maybe by acquiring them from an enemy or buying them and reverse engineering to allow for the opportunity to advance) you can upgrade to the Gotz von Berlichingen design, bit more useful as it could hold onto the item harder. Then you get into basic robotics, holding the item tighter but also allowing for easier item replacement.

It would take time to adjust the basic metal hands to hold onto items but when you motorize the fingers a motor releases the grip. This speeds up the time it takes to change gear by instead of tightening the fingers by hand a motor does it.

By researching better power sources, more efficient batteries; you could even replace entire arms and legs that would run on batteries but as you research and develop better versions become faster and stay charged longer and are less prone to break downs and faliures but need to be recharged (say in a town or your base as long as there is power and they are not currently in a fight; they could recharge if the unit is not in combat but the base is under attack. Same as you can put people in beds to rest to heal while the remaining squad defends until they can fight again).

Uncharged limbs would be stiff, causing people with replaced legs to limp slower then their top speed but faster then when the limb is damaged. Arms and hands would be like the Berlichingen design and could be worked manually if needed.

At the final version the limbs would be like they were natural except that they require batteries to operate at night and could be recharged by the sun during the day (this would be very far down the line of versions of arms.)

Legs would be a bit different but they are basically is the same: Major difference being until you get into the motorized versions you would be walking with a limp and the more advanced they get the better the unit moves.

To keep it simple there could be 5 possible replacements to choose from after you researched them all: Hook / peg leg (cheapest, the hook is a slashing weapon in it's own right and the both look cool), Roman / metal leg (leg can wear a boot) (gets upgraded to Berlichingen after it is discovered for you), a Berlichingen limb with minor motor capability, robotic arm / leg v1-5 (for arguments sake say there are 5 tech upgrades that just alter the limbs performance so they upgrade like the stone processor), and finally the final version (would be like the Star Wars limb replacement everyone around here seems to fear because they think it is the only option for limb replacement) outside it recharges in sunlight (even in combat) and at night runs on battery power. Holds onto items the best and is basically a metal version of the limb. Very expensive to make and very difficult to make.

[Mask]

Good idea. Depending, the cyber limbs could have some improvements as they get to the higher levels. Just as flexible as a hand, but stronger, and more durable (it's hard to cut something made of iron/steel). I like the idea, in fact ,that your new limbs can be attacks just as your old ones could, but it doesn't actually damage you--it just damages the prosthetic limb which will eventually hinder your performance (whether a lucky blow removes your weapon, or your peg-leg breaks so you trip and then have to limp very badly).

[Phasmatis75]

Great ideas but instead of motors we could fabricate arms that rely on a complicated set of gears and wires attached to the remaining muscle clusters to allow movement. With this line of technological evolution you wouldn't need batteries but very early models would break easily requiring repairs.

Down the technological path the limbs get more complex and harder to damage as their alloy composition becomes stronger and stronger.

This could parallel the electronic path. While these arms are useful they would give you only a minor strength boost which the electric powered limbs would give a larger but they would give you a resistance bonus since they are made of metal.

Simply Put:
Mechanical

• Medium Strength Boost
  Large Resistance Boost
  Doesn't Need to charge

Electronic

• Major Strength Boost
  Medium Resistance Boost
  Requires Recharging

Of course another path though weaker to both should be the stump replacements like the peg leg and hook upgrading to the Roman General models but then never getting more sophisticated with no strength boost or and minor resistance tweaks but these limbs could be the cheapest to replace and would be the ones you give to your newest most inexperience members.

Stub Class

• No Strength Boost
  Minor Resistance Boost
  Cheap, but tech line doesn't sophisticate

A cool feature that could be added to go along with these tech paths would be how the world reacts to your possession of this technology. Some should see it as an abomination and their hatred of you increases as you delve further into any of the mechanical or electronic branches, but will care little about peg legs and hook arms.

Other groups should revere you for this technology and ether attempt to take it for themselves or befriend you in exchange for you giving their warriors access to this technology.

When major wars break out that you don't participate in and two sides need the limb replacement technology they should compete for it be ether trade, or blockading off your settlement to the other side. If they later there is land claims then they might even occupy your territory in order to win the war.

[Scotterius]

What if mechanical arms did not heal naturally (or due to a specialized first aid) and you had to take them back to a craft table for repairs? That would make donor arms more appealing, while mechanical would still be the more 'ethical' choice.

I just love the idea of a 'limb harvester' faction.

[Mask]

It'd be really weird if the mechanical arms did heal naturally.

[Old Man Liver]

Clearly these mechanical arms will have mechanical platelets and mechanical fibroblasts.

[jamesormiston]

To be honest, mechanical limbs is one of my favorite upcoming features.
People complain about the theme, but if you ask me this fits perfectly! It's already established that turrets will be built eventually, and we already have complex machinery like generators and wind turbines, in a post apocalyptic world like this its easily feasible that people may no longer possess the means to make guns due to the world simply having evolved beyond them, and then lost the technology in the same apocalyptic event that destroyed their society.

That aside....it's a different world to our own, why cant it get a little steam/cyberpunk? xD The armour and technology (especially the concepts of upcoming armours and clothing) definitely lend themselves to such a setting.

[iSuck345]

To be honest, mechanical limbs is one of my favorite upcoming features.
People complain about the theme, but if you ask me this fits perfectly! It's already established that turrets will be built eventually, and we already have complex machinery like generators and wind turbines, in a post apocalyptic world like this its easily feasible that people may no longer possess the means to make guns due to the world simply having evolved beyond them, and then lost the technology in the same apocalyptic event that destroyed their society.

That aside....it's a different world to our own, why cant it get a little steam/cyberpunk? xD The armour and technology (especially the concepts of upcoming armours and clothing) definitely lend themselves to such a setting.

The steampunk elements in here are great. But CYBERPUNK? I know that in cyberpunk you get limb replacements, but in steampunk too. Sure there is some low-life element in this game, but it's not centered around it. I heavelly doubt that there is any cyberpunk element in here.

Also people should know that we're not talking about theese turrets:

http://t2ak.roblox.com/2c2e138df71d889c9c50e244bf866373

And no, there will be no gargants. Sure they don't use electricity, but still... well, just take a look at the chart see what gargants have:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... -Chart.PNG

Also, for more info about it: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Gargant

[jamesormiston]

The steampunk elements in here are great. But CYBERPUNK? I know that in cyberpunk you get limb replacements, but in steampunk too. Sure there is some low-life element in this game, but it's not centered around it. I heavelly doubt that there is any cyberpunk element in here.

Also people should know that we're not talking about these turrets:

http://t2ak.roblox.com/2c2e138df71d889c9c50e244bf866373

I don't mean full on neon lights and retractable laser guns cyberpunk xD I only added that in as a way of differentiating the fact that that due to the obvious technical advancement of this world they need not be steam powered and could be electronic in nature. Probably more in line with a more rustic version of Anakin Skywalker's or Edward Elric's robotic arms at the highest level of technological advancement (in looks alone really).

I like the idea of some advanced tech existing as it would create a real sense of hierarchy in this post apocalyptic world, the poor make do on scavenged technology whilst the rich, notably the Empire, still has access to the best that the old world had to offer including fully-functional replacement limbs or, possibly in cases of important or powerful warriors like the paladins, voluntary augmentation to increase combat ability.

I think it would give the game something more unique than just "rusty buildings and katanas" xP

Also I'm aware that they wont be gun turrets, I assumed some kind of natural progression from the harpoon guns already suggested at, which would already suggest the existence of advanced hydraulic technology which would acceptably allow (in tandem with careful clockwork) the existence of replacement limbs.

[Ozark Tempses]

I only see one thing that could be cool enough for a limb harvester faction, as Scotterius said:
Steampunk mecha-drider. Seriously. To have your lower half replaced with a FREAKING spider body would so awesome I didn't find any picture on the matter. You equip that with claws and boom! mecha-scorpion-drider-tingy...
I am maybe going too forward in mechanical advencement, but I can't see anyway that it wouldn't be cool.

[iSuck345]

I only see one thing that could be cool enough for a limb harvester faction, as Scotterius said:
Steampunk mecha-drider. Seriously. To have your lower half replaced with a FREAKING spider body would so awesome I didn't find any picture on the matter. You equip that with claws and boom! mecha-scorpion-drider-tingy...
I am maybe going too forward in mechanical advencement, but I can't see anyway that it wouldn't be cool.

Yes, now all we gotta do is how the body wold control 6 legs... maybe electrical wires wold transfer the impulses of the brain at the same rate as the blood vessels do?
Anyway, it's also got it's cons: when you use the giant spider legs, someone with a plank may just chop them off, thus the spider guy wold need to rely on the dude with the atatched harpoon rifle.

[Scotterius]

I am maybe going too forward in mechanical advencement, but I can't see anyway that it wouldn't be cool.

Well I am expecting that the mechanical limbs will be implemented by changing the texture of the limb, but replacing the entire limb (and collapsing the original limb model into the remaining torso) is another route. If this is done then the mecha-drider becomes possible, and could be appropriate for some of the 'Legendary' areas that Chis has talked about. I can even imagine the spider part interfacing well with existing sword play and the upper torso providing range fire.



While I could see a rusty clockwork version of this lurking in some corner as an end-game threat, there are probably easier ways to provide the same dynamics. I could see an entire expansion based on this.

[Sydious]

1. Those limbs through history were in no way mechanical. The one made to hold up a shield was moved by the bi-cep to raise it to possition. It itself had no mechanical movement.
2. Just cos its on the net doesnt mean its true. The internet is one of the biggest sources of info. Its just a shame ANYONE can create a web page and spew out whatever the hell they want. Worse yet, idiots believe it.
3. This game is not set in an era where a replacement limb would have funcion, 'cept maybe to give the illusion of still possessing the said limb.

That being said, The addition of "MECHANICAL" limbs would, be in a sense, game breaking.
Replacement limbs, ie: wooden leg, hook hands, would be more in line with games current flow.

[Scotterius]

3. This game is not set in an era where a replacement limb would have funcion, 'cept maybe to give the illusion of still possessing the said limb.

I disagree. Kenshi features some very sophisticated technology. A fully automated research bench is extremely advanced robotics. There is already a fully automated well, and likely there will be many other fully automated industrial machines. Having a robotic limb does not seem like such a leap anymore.

Why do you think it would be game breaking?

[Old Man Liver]

Don't forget mechanical sliding doors. I don't even have a mechanical sliding door in my house! Imagine all the effort and time saved if i didn't have to take the time to turn a doorknob every time I wanted a door open.

[iSuck345]

Don't forget mechanical sliding doors. I don't even have a mechanical sliding door in my house! Imagine all the effort and time saved if i didn't have to take the time to turn a doorknob every time I wanted a door open.

I was gonna talk about them too, they add quite the good atmosphere of kenshi's steampunk.

http://www.fantasywelt.de/images/produc ... 0640_0.jpg

Thoose legs are in no way mechanical, there's a carapace which is for only organic parts, and proof that it's not put around a mechanical leg is that it's covering the entire leg without looking misplaced or "shaking" a little bit. Please, post something more bada**.