Sieges: attacking a walled city

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CalPal
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Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:14 am

So naturally, with building settlements and walls being a thing, there might be a sort of assumption that, once you build a city to a certain size, you're pretty much safe from anything. I mean, it's not like the enemies have any means of going through those walls... right?

I think the answer to this should be no. Imagine, if you will: your settlement has been stable for a long while. Thanks to your walls, the desert raiders are no longer a problem, and you can afford to equip your guards very well. You have, in past dealings, angered one of the factions, but you feel safe having built your settlement and/or battlements in a strategically sound region. As long as you have your walls, you should be safe.

One day, you notice some caravans are getting wiped out, each one progressively killed closer to your city. You realize an attack force is coming along, so you get your soldiers inside your city, get everyone inside and all that, and close the gates. There, you finally see it: a massive army just came by to try and wipe you out. But you are safe, knowing that they can't climb your walls and oh no, those men are carrying ladders with them! Is - is that a battering ram?!

You get your men to equip bows and arrows as fast as you can, hoping to shoot down the ladder bearers before they reach your walls. Sadly, it isn't enough: there's so many that any that are knocked out or killed will be replaced by another. They put the ladders on your walls and that chilling realization dawns on you: this entire army will be in your city, slowly but surely. Your only hope is that you can fight them off one by one, unable to handle more than one man at a time... and that's when the battering ram is at your gates. Hope you have an emergency escape plan!

If you want, you can imagine this scenario in reverse: YOU are the attacker getting back at a faction that's screwed you over and over again, and no amount of walls will stop you from entering that city. Come hell or high water, you are going to take this city as your own, wipe out all resistance, and use it as a staging point for further attacks until your enemy weeps for mercy!

---

Regardless, I think the idea of having siege equipment would be a great idea to make a dent on larger cities. Even expanding on that, siege equipment should be available based on the complexity of the design: desert raiders could easily scrap together some wood to build a ladder for getting over some walls and raiding a small, walled-off village - or an organized raid on a larger city - while battering rams and maybe even siege towers can be afforded only by the most wealthy and powerful factions in Kenshi, taking days to build them and even longer to transport them (unless you build it at, say, a siege campsite: http://www.lofigames.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... 80&p=14863). If you want to go even further than that, then you could build the most lethal siege equipment possible in this setting: the catapult, or maybe even the cannon with enough research.

There should also be some kind of system to determine when you have begun and ended a siege, and who came out as the victor. The latter would be a little obvious, of course, but a little prompt telling you that there's a siege going on would be really appreciated if, say, you're focusing on another group doing something else in a farther part of the region. Also letting you know when it ended and who won, who lost and how many died per side would be just as great.

And if the besiegers decide to abandon their equipment to retreat, you could be nice and return their equipment to them... when you go and besiege their cities! Mwahahahaha!! :lol:

So, that's my thoughts so far. Thoughts?

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Mattk50
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Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:36 pm

too bad real sieges cant happen unless chris makes it so you cant make all food, water etc completely inside a city.

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Tolwrath
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Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:22 pm

Don't forget about siege towers, siege ramps, and artillery. There's also the old fashioned tactics of digging a tunnel underneath the wall to either get inside or just plant explosives under the wall.

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CalPal
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Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:24 pm

Mattk50 wrote:too bad real sieges cant happen unless chris makes it so you cant make all food, water etc completely inside a city.
Even if you could build food production inside a city, you could still cut cities off from trading, and that could be bad if, say, you're desperately trying to arm your men and get new weapons inside the city.
Tolwrath wrote:Don't forget about siege towers, siege ramps, and artillery. There's also the old fashioned tactics of digging a tunnel underneath the wall to either get inside or just plant explosives under the wall.
Yeah, there's a lot of creative potential behind the number of ways one could approach attacking an enemy camp. I especially love the idea of digging underneath or having a bunch of builders dig a massive dirt mound that the rest of the army can go up. A lot of it inspired from, of course, Rome: Total War and its siege battles.

Another possibility would be having elite soldiers / spec op units - say, ninjas - be able to directly climb the walls, open the gates and let loose the entire army within the city. Though they would have to somehow disguise themselves to be able to do so... or just be really fast and ignore taking damage, maybe.

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Mattk50
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Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:42 pm

CalPal wrote:
Mattk50 wrote:too bad real sieges cant happen unless chris makes it so you cant make all food, water etc completely inside a city.
Even if you could build food production inside a city, you could still cut cities off from trading, and that could be bad if, say, you're desperately trying to arm your men and get new weapons inside the city.
youll be able to make those though.

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CalPal
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Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:13 pm

Mattk50 wrote:
CalPal wrote:snip
youll be able to make those though.
But you can produce them only if you have the money, and you can't exactly keep making money if you're cut off from the outside world by an army intending to besiege your settlement. Unless you aren't paying some people to continuously produce your stuff, in which case that's awkward in and of itself...

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Tolwrath
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Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:53 pm

I think what's being overlooked is that we'll probably have npc's in our town later on, and everyone's gotta eat. right now it's just your squad, and you could probably use just a couple fields to keep them fed, but how many fields would it take for an entire town? would you be able to wall off enough territory to keep your farms protected?

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CalPal
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Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:26 pm

So, I guess we'll have pretty much the same situation for most other towns historically: farms are left for the outside, the main city is walled up and protected, enemies exploit that by burnt land policies and keeping the defenders from re-supplying themselves, etc...

I think I'm okay with this.

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Mattk50
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Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:11 pm

unless the cost of walls and size of farms is changed, that wont end up being a problem. Its easy to build enough walls, especially considering that after some time you'll end up with an excess of workers and bricks anyway.

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CalPal
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Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Well, judging by the name "small farm", I think it's safe to assume farms will definitely have different size options, depending on how large you want to build your community and the level of research you've made. The same will likely go for walls: some settlements will be prosperous enough to have massive, near siege-proof walls, like with the major settlements we have now, while others either make do with a wall you could either climb over, with the help of AI buddies, or simply no walls at all.

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iSuck345
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Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:56 am

There is no such thing as siege-proof, all can be shattered and climbed on by the biggest ladders ever made, archers and harpooneers can take out anyone who tries to bring thoose walls down.
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