[Idea] Severed Limbs & Robotics Incorporation

[CrimsonKing]

Severed Limbs & Robotics Incorporation
Warning: Will contain Extensive Reading.
Note* I could not find anything on the subject, but maybe I just did a horrible search. If there is a thread containing these Ideas please link me to them, and I will remove this thread.

Severed limbs? Will there be severed limbs??!!!1!1!?
I am still thinking about this, I have a way but it may damage performance, and I need a feasible way for limb replacement in a game world too low-tech for robotics.

Heya Ladies, and (more than likely) Gents, My name is Crimson and I have an Idea.. *gasp* I know. I think this game could definitely use severed limbs, but it would decrease the performance of the characters you will come to know and love through out your journey in Kenshi. As I have quoted above from the FAQ there will more than likely not be severed limbs, because of the idea that the game world is too low-tech for robotics. Which is an idea that I think should be taken back to the drawing board. *Gasp* Blasphemy, i know. My bad. When you reply to this please make smart and well though out comments. I will ignore anything I think my little sister could come up with.

BUT, yes but, I'm not talking about some Gundam-Style-Bionic-Commando-Spartan-Iron-Giant-Gurren-Lagann-Pro-Anti-Spiral-Robot-Boy-Screw-on/Strap-on/Glue-on/Lick-n-Stick Power Up. I'm talking along the lines of Rusty and Basic Steam-Powered replacement. The human body is an Electro-Chemical machine in a way. So use that, and this whole new world, to a hypothetical/alternate reality advantage. This is a new world in a way. So the question is why "Too low-tech" and not just "expensive?"

You can't always explain away certain technological advancements, but in this world's case there is no such invention of the gun. Bullets in a way are much more clean, but in a world where you fight battles with swords; limb removal will be substantially more common. So with that logic the populace could have developed away to augment people who have lost limbs in battle. Does that make sense?

(Rant: Someone will probably make the argument "Why isn't that done today? We have bombs those will remove a limb or two.." Well yeah, but if you're close enough to a bomb to lose a limb you have 3 factors against your survival. First and foremost the force needed to remove a limb will also stop your heart. Death is instantaneous. Second is Shrapnel. All bombs have some sort of shrapnel and if you're close enough to have a limb blow off, and your heart doesn't stop, then there will be a considerable amount of alien debris that is now either lodged in your body or blown clean through. You are now in shock and bleeding to death. The possibility of a vital internal organ being ruptured is high. Third and Final is the heat. If you heart doesn't stop and you've avoided any shrapnel, or it missed your vital organs, You're in luck; You wont bleed to death. Your entire body has been cauterized. Bad news: You will still be in shock, and after a certain amount of time your brain will shut off saving you from having to endure that pain any longer. Therefore Argument invalid.)

So make it an expense decision over technological insufficiencies. If someone lost an arm they could see a bio-mechanical specialist that could out fit them with a bare bones augment that will replace the lost limb at the cost of stamina. Building up the character's strength and stamina will balance the augment. At first it would be clunky and clumsy, but hey! You have two arms.. So then what if you wanted something better? Armor upgrades, or whatever, would be even more expensive. You'd have to put in time and effort just to increase your character to be able to use these new limbs. Now you would have to put in even more time just to get better ones.

The advantages would be that you remove blood-loss, and replace basic extremities with armor, and greater strength. The disadvantages would obviously be the cost, the toll on your character's body (endurance/strength) just to get used to it, the recovery time and such it would take to heal from the wounds, and then the amount of time it would take to do all of that. Which would prevent people from losing limbs on purpose in order to become some mechanical super-soldier. Your body will be mechanical and have it's limits. Progression to become better would have to be through research and money. The human body could potentially progress beyond that, and that's the point of having it. Instead of just removing a limb and being boned, you could replace the limb in order to keep the character going. Not to make yourself stronger through mechanical advantages. Consider it an expensive and time consuming back up. It would make you a lot more in tune with your characters though. Having to put that much time and money into something could cause an attachment.

Now about the detached limb. I think it would be best to turn it into it's own separate entity and have it decay. Another good idea would be to have a doctor be able to reattach the severed limb in the case that you would be able to reach a doctor or medical facility in time to save the limb. It would be cheaper and less time consuming to reattach the limb than it would be to purchase an artificial one. So that should fully close the circle on my idea.

Hopefully that all makes sense. If you would like me to clear something up just ask. Be intelligent about your feed back. Constructive criticism helps out a lot. Thanks for reading if you did. Thanks for replying if you do. And if not, oh well thank you anyways.

[HamSpanker]

Great idea!

Although it doesn't have to be so futuristic as using a steam-powered arm...
I can imagine that the craftsmen have developed a way of making a simple iron arm. Yes a simple replica of an arm, or leg for that matter and then learned through basic surgery to put that bad boy on the wounded soldier. It would have the goods of being higher armor value, and of course in unarmed combat it would hurt more than a normal arm of flesh. Downside would of course be the cost of getting this replacement, a huge minus in athletic and dexterity since you cannot bend this new very much, unless you pay for the best replacement, which would allow the bearer to bend it slightly, thereby reducing the loss of athleticism and dexterity. The weight should also be considered, as it is heavier to walk around with. And after having it put on, I would say the individual should lose 5-10 points in all branches of combat. They need to learn how to control this new piece of metal on their arm, balance with it and so forth. Also a character with this replacement cannot swim because of his fear of rust.

And if you're a real cheap ass you could just get him a wooden leg instead

My idea on how to make the severed limps system work

[CrimsonKing]

Steam-power inst futuristic. At least not what i'm thinking about. I was thinking really bare bones too. Like a metal frame and a steam or water pressure based piston. I did a basic appendage design for the science fair once. It wasn't original, but I was wondering why it wasn't used. Apparently it's not very comfortable and it would be heavy. Plus you'd have to get lots of shots, and perform maintenance on the thing constantly to keep it from rusting. The worse part is you'd need a pump and a contain to hold the water. I wasn't going to mention any of that though.. I agree with all the minuses, but I was just suggesting the idea and leaving the stat stuff up to the creator.

As for the wooden leg... lol, uh have you ever gone to the beach with crutches? I'd image it would be just as terrible running around a desert. Dry wood it weak as well. I don't know how pirates with wood stub legs could even think that was a good idea. And now i'm thinking about a swordsman with stilts for legs. I take it back, haha wood legs sound amusing if you could choose the length of them.. As if running around with a super tall guy in your faction wasn't enough.

[HamSpanker]

The wooden leg was meant as a joke, but I suggest for what 200 coins you could buy a wooden leg and put it on. Not usable by all and the wearer would be severely handicapped but then again, it's better than having no leg at all

And well I guess the idea with the piston sound reasonable enough, but yes it would require alot of upkeeping to make it work. It's harder than I imagined solving the problem of a severed limp, as I dont think it should be something like "oh your best soldier got an unlucky blow to his right arm, now it's gone and he will never be able to fight anymore". We need to make some sort of replacement avaible for our guys

[Tolwrath]

Actually a wooden leg could work on sand if you just attached something with a wide surface area to the end of it. Some sort of curved elongated plate maybe? Seal it up with a top part to keep it from filling with sand? Kind of foot shaped i guess, unless you went with perfectly round.

Also: I amused myself with thoughts of a character trying to bag up their artificial limbs before travelling through a swamp. Or my main character just having to carry him/her above the water.

[JoeNapalm]

I think that the Steampunk approach is a pretty good idea.

Not too futuristic, doesn't require magic or super-science, seems to fit somewhat with the post-apocalytic lo-tech feel of the setting.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[CalPal]

My thought was something simple but eloquent. For example, the blade-runner Olympian Oscar Pistorius and the design of his legs? That would be decent for running around, and the curve of the legs could easily be achieved with a single steel beam quite like the ones used to make the weapons.

[Dropbare]

I have noticed several of the buildings that can be crafted can be powered by batteries. Why not a simple arm made from robotics parts that is battery powered?

The arm could be as simple as several metal bars forged with some sort of hinge mechanic (elbow, shoulder etc.) and a socket or place where a battery is plugged in. You would have low tech robotic arms using technology already available within the game setting. Batteries would obviously have limited lifespans so perhaps you would switch them off until you enter combat to preserve their charge. And/or perhaps you can carry multiple battery packs around, swap the dead batteries out with fresh ones, and recharge the dead ones at generators back in your camp/safe-house/city etc.

[iSuck345]

You do know that an incorporation is the creation of a corporation, right? I'll just assume that you know that.

Anyways, all of theese ideas are great, and I support it. We won't see simply a bunch of robot maniacs raping and trolling the entire world and turning it upside down, this will likely heavelly balance the limbs. Now all we need is the chance of a general or an industrialist buying it if they have the money and time, and make sure that the limbs are TOTALLY worth it, for example the effects of having one limb missing being worse than we fought OR the limb being not as weak as it looks whilst not being a rip-off of a gundam mech limb like Starcraft is a rip-off of Warhammer 40,000.

[Ishaye]

Wow some sort of auto mail would be pretty awesome. I'm totally for this

[Zuty Puty]

I'll go ahead and say I didn't read really any of that as I just wanted to ask a question. Wasn't this already confirmed to be in the game a long, long time ago? Like somewhere around 2 years ago at least? It was in the description on ModDB when I first discovered Kenshi.

"Realistic medical system that affects gameplay. A character with a wounded leg will limp or crawl and slow the party down, wounded arms means you must use your sword one-handed or not at all. Lose an eye and it will affect your field of vision. Blood loss means you can pass out, and the blood will attract predators. Exhaustion affects performance and is increased by equipment weight, weather, blood loss and thirst. Severed limbs will need expensive robotic replacements."

If you click "Help" ingame, and look through that, it will even tell you that a limb is severed when it reaches -100.

[jtgibson]

You do know that an incorporation is the creation of a corporation, right? I'll just assume that you know that.

incorporate (third-person singular simple present incorporates, present participle incorporating, simple past and past participle incorporated)

1. (transitive) To include (something) as a part. (The design of his house incorporates a spiral staircase.)
2. (transitive) To mix (something in) as an ingredient; to blend (Incorporate air into the mixture.)
3. (transitive) To admit as a member of a company
4. (transitive) To form into a legal company (The company was incorporated in 1980,)

He used definition #1 (i.e., the most common definition). You used definition #4 (i.e., the least common definition). You're assuming that a properly-used word is used incorrectly because you're attributing the wrong context or definition to it.

Life lesson is to make sure you look up a word before you try to correct another's use of it, or better yet to correct only the most egregious errors, such as "your" when they mean "you're" (and only then if it's not a one-off thing) -- or "wold" when they mean "would". =P

[iSuck345]

You do know that an incorporation is the creation of a corporation, right? I'll just assume that you know that.

incorporate (third-person singular simple present incorporates, present participle incorporating, simple past and past participle incorporated)

1. (transitive) To include (something) as a part. (The design of his house incorporates a spiral staircase.)
2. (transitive) To mix (something in) as an ingredient; to blend (Incorporate air into the mixture.)
3. (transitive) To admit as a member of a company
4. (transitive) To form into a legal company (The company was incorporated in 1980,)

He used definition #1 (i.e., the most common definition). You used definition #4 (i.e., the least common definition). You're assuming that a properly-used word is used incorrectly because you're attributing the wrong context or definition to it.

Life lesson is to make sure you look up a word before you try to correct another's use of it, or better yet to correct only the most egregious errors, such as "your" when they mean "you're" (and only then if it's not a one-off thing) -- or "wold" when they mean "would". =P

Irony is, I DID look it up.

[Muffinut]

Irony is, I DID look it up.

Then I guess the lesson is to do better research, or at least not to be so overly semantic.

[Tolwrath]

There's nothing wrong with him being Jewish. (j/k I know the difference between Semitic and semantic)
It's true that robotic limbs have been an announced feature for a long time. However there has been much discussion about the aesthetics of them, the balance, and if they would even fit into the game's setting. As I recall Chris himself questioned these aspects at one point. The short of it is that while we know they'll be incorporated, we don't yet know how they will be incorporated.

Side note: the common use of antisemite is one of the dumbest things I've heard. The people who hate Jewish people the most are mostly Semites.

[Ajakestr]

Alright, this one is gonna be long as well.
Firstly, I agree with the idea that it should be steam punk (PERFECT for the environment and style) it just fits. I also agree with the fact that it shouldn't be accessible to just anybody. It should also be available to those with limbs and willing to sacrifice Dexterity and athletics. NOT strength.
Cost: It should be VERY expensive, and very hard to research, maybe a special faction that stays in solitude and will only teach you how to do it yourself when you have max relations. It should be something you really have to WORK for because eventually it could be a very beneficiary.
Affects on Squad member: Obviously it should carry a significant weight, and cause a penalty to athletics, and dexterity by default in early and more basic versions. Higher strength should allow you to equal these or allow you to use the mechanism more effectively. More advanced versions should be lighter, and more flexible, and on the other spectrum gain a slight bonus to strength. (it should be a trade off to keep people from being god like)
Early versions should be large and awkward and maybe even have a robotics skill. This is obviously going to be a large part of the game because combat is a constant, and limbs are bound to be removed. but it should almost be impossible, at first, to obtain. That way, you will be extra careful not to chance losing a limb until you can afford to.

[dovecoon]

Alright, this one is gonna be long as well.
Firstly, I agree with the idea that it should be steam punk (PERFECT for the environment and style) it just fits. I also agree with the fact that it shouldn't be accessible to just anybody. It should also be available to those with limbs and willing to sacrifice Dexterity and athletics. NOT strength.
Cost: It should be VERY expensive, and very hard to research, maybe a special faction that stays in solitude and will only teach you how to do it yourself when you have max relations. It should be something you really have to WORK for because eventually it could be a very beneficiary.
Affects on Squad member: Obviously it should carry a significant weight, and cause a penalty to athletics, and dexterity by default in early and more basic versions. Higher strength should allow you to equal these or allow you to use the mechanism more effectively. More advanced versions should be lighter, and more flexible, and on the other spectrum gain a slight bonus to strength. (it should be a trade off to keep people from being god like)
Early versions should be large and awkward and maybe even have a robotics skill. This is obviously going to be a large part of the game because combat is a constant, and limbs are bound to be removed. but it should almost be impossible, at first, to obtain. That way, you will be extra careful not to chance losing a limb until you can afford to.

I really like the idea of a faction devoted solely to limb replacement, kind of like a corporation. Especially if other natural resources have their own mini-economy, several mini-factions almost like huge companies would work well with this.

However, I really think care should be taken with robotics. I think a robotic arm (steampunk or not) with articulated fingers would really not fit in. I think robotic limbs should be VERY rudimentary - almost like a slab of metal shoved into your arm socket with a katana glued to the end. If robotics are implemented, there should really only be one point of articulation - knee/elbow (with hip/shoulder being part of the original limb) otherwise it just gets too science fiction-ey.



And a slightly unrelated note here. If robotics are implemented, I really think there should be an option to voluntarily amputate and replace a healthy limb with a robotic one. Perhaps they could have higher base stats, but lower potential, so you need to decide if you want a big boost now in exchange for being weaker later.

[ZanathKariashi]

No bleeding, and much higher resistance to damage, but they don't naturally heal and have to be repaired with fairly costly repair kits for minor damage (0-100), with a greatly increased repair time if attempted outside of a shop with robotics equipment (efficiency of repair based on the repairers robotics skill). Serious damage (-100 to -1) can only be repaired at a robotics facility since the entire limb is pretty much having to be reconstructed.


Not only replacing lost limbs, but at higher tech levels full blown implants for head, chest, stomach, that give higher resistance to damage, and are less likely to bleed. But can only healed to half-maximum by med-kits, the other half requiring robotic parts. Possibly other effects, like Night-vision or similar, depending on how much other stuff is added to game world between then and now.

Give each implant/Limb a minimum required endurance that penalizes the character heavily if not met, though simply living with the implants will slowly increase endurance overtime. Also give them weight, with cruder implants generally weighing more then more refined and streamlined version.

[honeybadger]

Severed limbs? Will there be severed limbs??!!!1!1!?
I am still thinking about this, I have a way but it may damage performance, and I need a feasible way for limb replacement in a game world too low-tech for robotics.

In a world where there is such things as generators, Low tech doesn't seem to be and shouldn't the restrictive setting for this game. As it is mentioned in the FAQs it is not a game where the world is static and is up to the players to do whatever they want. However there must be a direction for the imagination or else this game is not required. The way i see it, the world is one not of simple low tech, but a world of lost tech. On this note there would be no restrictions on what could and could not be implemented into the game. perhaps robotics was simply one of the few technologies that had been roughly saved from destruction. This may perhaps open up new things. Maybe ruins of high tech cities, maybe not. It is simply a matter of making up a story to cover loose ends.

[arthoz]

I guess it can't be helped but one must place a real life example of a mighty warrior who uses a prosthethic limb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen

http://www.karlofgermany.com/Goetz.htm

And for those who mistrust wikipedia here's an entry from encyclopedia brittannica

http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/ ... rlichingen

I hope this would help with the game design. You don't really need a "high tech" solution to all your problems. Just creative application of simple concept is enough...adhere closely to K.I.S.S.