Firearms?
I, for one, would like to see Kenshi without powder powered guns, but there seems to be enough people on the forum that feels the other way. I guess it will boil down to Chris's vision for the game. As has already been mentioned, guns can always be implemented in a mod.
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iSuck345
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1: that's a little better now
2: you wold see and hear them charging before they wold be close to you unless they sneaked on you, so you wold have time to throw the bomb and run away
3: you wold just throw the explosive behind the enemy, it's not impossible
2: you wold see and hear them charging before they wold be close to you unless they sneaked on you, so you wold have time to throw the bomb and run away
3: you wold just throw the explosive behind the enemy, it's not impossible
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
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SubatomicBroton
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You seem to be oversimplifying/making a lot of assumptions in order to make your case. I'm not sure what "that's a little better now" means in regards to my first point, but the other two arguments...iSuck345 wrote:1: that's a little better now
2: you wold see and hear them charging before they wold be close to you unless they sneaked on you, so you wold have time to throw the bomb and run away
3: you wold just throw the explosive behind the enemy, it's not impossible
2: Even if you see and hear them charging, you're still assuming you'd hit, and that you'd kill or incapacitate everyone. If you don't, you're going to want other more suitable close range weapons.
3: Not impossible is not the same as practical. They don't line up neatly in lines to fight in this game. Everyone ends up scrambled all over the place in my experience. There is no one "behind" to hit only the enemy. Plus, you'd always be risking a friendly moving into range before it detonated - any way you slice it (pun intended), swords are just going to be better in a fray.
Once again, I'm not really arguing for them necessarily (I think steam-punk siege weapons could be a lot more interesting), I'm just saying there is no game-play reason, or really even any logical reason, that bombs couldn't be included without voiding swords. Whether or not they should be included for thematic reasons is a different argument.
Well 1 of the earliest uses of actual "bombs" in fights would be attached to an Arrow. (rockets)
Back then it was seen as magic though so i think it was more demoralising then damage
.
Offc burn wounds not the splat into Thousand pieces.
Hmm it does seem we will get fuel, so incindiary bombs
.
The problem with humans is we are very crafty when it comes to making war(haha i would have gone for "and love" but ....
)
I think we can make every thing into a weapon, even a Toaster
Back then it was seen as magic though so i think it was more demoralising then damage
.Offc burn wounds not the splat into Thousand pieces.
Hmm it does seem we will get fuel, so incindiary bombs
.The problem with humans is we are very crafty when it comes to making war(haha i would have gone for "and love" but ....
)I think we can make every thing into a weapon, even a Toaster
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iSuck345
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Toasterassassin will like this.Smiley wrote:I think we can make every thing into a weapon, even a Toaster
Last edited by iSuck345 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I have carefully read this thread, and I agree with or at the very least understand just about any argument that is not a ''Holier than thou'' or a ''It will be op plz nerf'' comment.
At first I could see firearms in the game, simply because I adore them, and I feel that the relationship between bows and/or early guns vs swords are fascinating and absolutely astonishing to me. (although, guns ultimately wins out over bows, because I simply think they are cooler)
All arguments here have a just as valid counter argument. This is simply an idea/request/suggestion if Chris feels like it fits the aesthetic of the game it probably will be added, but arguing and complaining about people's suggestions wont get anywhere, he will always make someone unhappy no matter what he do. We all do.
There is no argument for, and no argument against, to make this a ''must have'' or a ''no go''.
I liked the posts about how it could be implemented, or how it could be explained why it wasn't. Not the posts about reasons it should or should not, as those posts quite bleak.
However my personal opinion after reading all this and thinking a bit would be:
Guns as in firearms? no.
Guns as in handheld pressure(and/or spring) driven harpoon rifle? Yes please!
(Would also fit the aesthetic of the game world with all their advanced robotics and such.)
At first I could see firearms in the game, simply because I adore them, and I feel that the relationship between bows and/or early guns vs swords are fascinating and absolutely astonishing to me. (although, guns ultimately wins out over bows, because I simply think they are cooler)
All arguments here have a just as valid counter argument. This is simply an idea/request/suggestion if Chris feels like it fits the aesthetic of the game it probably will be added, but arguing and complaining about people's suggestions wont get anywhere, he will always make someone unhappy no matter what he do. We all do.
There is no argument for, and no argument against, to make this a ''must have'' or a ''no go''.
I liked the posts about how it could be implemented, or how it could be explained why it wasn't. Not the posts about reasons it should or should not, as those posts quite bleak.
However my personal opinion after reading all this and thinking a bit would be:
Guns as in firearms? no.
Guns as in handheld pressure(and/or spring) driven harpoon rifle? Yes please!
(Would also fit the aesthetic of the game world with all their advanced robotics and such.)
Something tells me that harpoon guns will be used to scale city walls/buildings more than as an actual weapon. If there will be firearms in the game, the scope of Kenshi tells me that firearms will be no more powerful than they are in Shogun: Total War.Krowe wrote:I feel like bows/crossbows might be enough for me. I know harpoon guns are listed in the skills, and depending on if they are rubber powered or pneumatically powered; that could open a few windows.
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philthymcnasty
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Fire arms can be done in a way that they will not break the game. For example, they would have to be a hard to research item, requiring a lot of time and effort. After all, how can you imagine a weapon that harnesses explosions to shoot metal slugs at people if you have never seen one, or heard about the concept. We forget that half our researchers were just peasants we recruited for 700 cats. Those guys will need some inspiration before coming up with new super weapons.
Then there is the desert. Only after years of research and tons of money did we finally get rifles sturdy enough to not jam when there was too much sand in the wrong places. Jamming/backfires would be the ultimate balance. Who would be mad enough to use a weapon that might fail, or blow up on them? and would you want to fight such a lunatic. If guns were implemented, then only the highest tier would have reliability/durability.
And what about sound? We forget about it because our game is still very quit. But loud noises from weapons would be a great way to attract every enemy to you. That would also make a great balancing feature, a weapon that kills with one hit, but by the time its reloaded, 50 enemies are running towards your position.
Then there is the desert. Only after years of research and tons of money did we finally get rifles sturdy enough to not jam when there was too much sand in the wrong places. Jamming/backfires would be the ultimate balance. Who would be mad enough to use a weapon that might fail, or blow up on them? and would you want to fight such a lunatic. If guns were implemented, then only the highest tier would have reliability/durability.
And what about sound? We forget about it because our game is still very quit. But loud noises from weapons would be a great way to attract every enemy to you. That would also make a great balancing feature, a weapon that kills with one hit, but by the time its reloaded, 50 enemies are running towards your position.
Gosh, there's so much to hit on here.
First, we need to think about the fundamentals of video games. They try to recreate reality, and by that I mean we want to experience alternate worlds, ones that we would not usually be able to go to, that still make sense. I could go on with this thought, but my point is this; The will of humanity to kill each other with new and awesome weapons is an unavoidable feature.
That being said, it's not inconceivable for guns to not appear in the game. As someone else said, as long as there is a logical fictional explanation for the oddity in-game, there is little or no objection. So all we need to do is think of one.
In my case, I came up with something inbetween. I think it would be cool if overpowered ranged weapons were present in the game, but rare and relatively unattainable. The example I specifically thought of was a self-isolated civilization that possessed guns. (Think of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout). This civilization would be immensely powerful, but governed by a doctrine that would prohibit it from distributing its weapons or from even socializing with outsiders. They would actually kill anyone who came close. So, off in some far corner of the world, this civilization exists, but is unknown to most everyone, not because it's secret, but because everyone who knows is dead. It would exist as a prestigious discovery for the player, and as a worthy opponent for when the game gets easy.
EDIT: It's not like you'd be able to talk to and befriend these people either. You're just another piece of desert crap they'll bury under the sand for the good of humanity.
As to the structure of these weapons, they wouldn't even have to be overpowered or cliche. So far, I think people came up with muskets, pistols, flamethrowers, railguns, and the traditional bow and crossbow. While everyone else should have bows and arrows (maybe crossbows, it doesn't really matter), I REALLY liked the idea of the electromagnetically powered railgun. This fits right in with the potential people in Kenshi have based upon the advanced structures we have seen/planned cybernetic implants. I can see this as being a powerful crossbow, where the user has to wind it up after each shot. Maybe it's powered by building up charge with a crank, like a Van Graff? After all, you only need moving charge carriers (electric current) to generate a magnetic field. I can definitely see this happening. It's a futuristic equivalent of a crossbow.
As to the structure of the weapons this mysterious civilation would possess, I can't guess. Guns? Maybe even lasers? I have no guesses as to what the pre-apocalypse civilizaion was like.
A final note, to those who keep insisting that guns existed around the same time as swords and such... You are correct. The spans of times during which both of these technologies were used did overlap. However, keep in mind that the regions they were used in were often separated. Not EVERY game and setting has to follow the rules of Japan and Rennaisance Europe. Think of Dark Ages Europe, while China was experimenting with explosives. Think of the African, South American, and North American continents, which never developed the technology for themselves. There are places where guns never existed, and would have never existed unless someone else came in and introduced them.
To understand this issue, you really have to immerse yourself in the game. Do not think of what would be cool to add into the game. Put yourself in the shoes of some average joe in this wasteland of a desert. You build a shack from stone because you've got stone and sand (which by the way... what happened to clay?). You grab a sword because it's a big hunk of metal that's lethal when you're strong. You don't think about elastics, gunpowder, chemistry, or energy, because you're a dumb desert wanderer. Only until you get a nice shack, with a good supply of food and some bodyguards, can you sit down and think about crazy things like that. And even then... You might just spend your life trying to turn sand into gold.
First, we need to think about the fundamentals of video games. They try to recreate reality, and by that I mean we want to experience alternate worlds, ones that we would not usually be able to go to, that still make sense. I could go on with this thought, but my point is this; The will of humanity to kill each other with new and awesome weapons is an unavoidable feature.
That being said, it's not inconceivable for guns to not appear in the game. As someone else said, as long as there is a logical fictional explanation for the oddity in-game, there is little or no objection. So all we need to do is think of one.
In my case, I came up with something inbetween. I think it would be cool if overpowered ranged weapons were present in the game, but rare and relatively unattainable. The example I specifically thought of was a self-isolated civilization that possessed guns. (Think of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout). This civilization would be immensely powerful, but governed by a doctrine that would prohibit it from distributing its weapons or from even socializing with outsiders. They would actually kill anyone who came close. So, off in some far corner of the world, this civilization exists, but is unknown to most everyone, not because it's secret, but because everyone who knows is dead. It would exist as a prestigious discovery for the player, and as a worthy opponent for when the game gets easy.
EDIT: It's not like you'd be able to talk to and befriend these people either. You're just another piece of desert crap they'll bury under the sand for the good of humanity.
As to the structure of these weapons, they wouldn't even have to be overpowered or cliche. So far, I think people came up with muskets, pistols, flamethrowers, railguns, and the traditional bow and crossbow. While everyone else should have bows and arrows (maybe crossbows, it doesn't really matter), I REALLY liked the idea of the electromagnetically powered railgun. This fits right in with the potential people in Kenshi have based upon the advanced structures we have seen/planned cybernetic implants. I can see this as being a powerful crossbow, where the user has to wind it up after each shot. Maybe it's powered by building up charge with a crank, like a Van Graff? After all, you only need moving charge carriers (electric current) to generate a magnetic field. I can definitely see this happening. It's a futuristic equivalent of a crossbow.
As to the structure of the weapons this mysterious civilation would possess, I can't guess. Guns? Maybe even lasers? I have no guesses as to what the pre-apocalypse civilizaion was like.
A final note, to those who keep insisting that guns existed around the same time as swords and such... You are correct. The spans of times during which both of these technologies were used did overlap. However, keep in mind that the regions they were used in were often separated. Not EVERY game and setting has to follow the rules of Japan and Rennaisance Europe. Think of Dark Ages Europe, while China was experimenting with explosives. Think of the African, South American, and North American continents, which never developed the technology for themselves. There are places where guns never existed, and would have never existed unless someone else came in and introduced them.
To understand this issue, you really have to immerse yourself in the game. Do not think of what would be cool to add into the game. Put yourself in the shoes of some average joe in this wasteland of a desert. You build a shack from stone because you've got stone and sand (which by the way... what happened to clay?). You grab a sword because it's a big hunk of metal that's lethal when you're strong. You don't think about elastics, gunpowder, chemistry, or energy, because you're a dumb desert wanderer. Only until you get a nice shack, with a good supply of food and some bodyguards, can you sit down and think about crazy things like that. And even then... You might just spend your life trying to turn sand into gold.
Last edited by kain_lei on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
It seems there is a bit of a misunderstanding here sir. What I actually said was electricity and magnetism are two different things, I never claimed they were unrelated. The point I was making was just because the world in question has the technology to harness electricity does not necessarily mean that it has the technology to harness magnetism. While it is possible, there is no evidence in the game to support such a theory - yet.kain_lei wrote: (By the way, I LMAO when that person said electricity and magnetism are not related. I mean... the method of transportation is called an "electromagnetic wave"!)
I deleted my previous post because arguing about this is just going to clutter the thread. Obviously there are going to be plenty of people on both sides of this argument. Those who are for guns and those who are against it. Anyone who feels strongly that their side is right can always find some justification for why it should or should not be. I am not claiming to be innocent of this either, as I was making an argument against them. Point being, this thread will go on forever if we let it. So let me make a final statement that is a bit more neutral, though still against. After that, I will stop posting on it.
While this game certainly has a post apocalyptic feel to it, the world it takes place on has not been claimed to be Earth by the development team. We don't really know if there even was an apocalypse here. Perhaps this is the natural evolution of this world. Even if it was Earth, being a fantasy game, it does not have to have the technology that our past civilizations had. This is one point I agree with you on, though maybe not for the exact same reasons. The argument that guns existed in an overlapping time period with swords has no merit here.
I stand by my original statement in earlier posts. It would be simple to leave guns out of the base game, and let the mod community make them. This would make both parties happy by ensuring the base game stays true to what we have enjoyed so far, and those who want guns can get them added if they wish. Easier to use a mod to add guns to the game than use a mod to remove them in my opinion.
I have said it, others have said it, perhaps even you have said it: Ultimately the decision is up to Chris. This is his vision, not ours. Since I have enjoyed the game as it is so far, just like many of you have, I am sure that whatever he decides will continue to be an enjoyable experience. I think if anything, further posts on this should be made to the Feature Request forum since it is not already in the game and therefore not a Gameplay topic. Perhaps we could actually get this post moved there since it is so popular already?
Anyway, I thank anyone who takes the time to read all this stuff. While I realize I can rant from time to time, I try to stay on topic as much as possible. Thanks again.
Bancheis
While this game certainly has a post apocalyptic feel to it, the world it takes place on has not been claimed to be Earth by the development team. We don't really know if there even was an apocalypse here. Perhaps this is the natural evolution of this world. Even if it was Earth, being a fantasy game, it does not have to have the technology that our past civilizations had. This is one point I agree with you on, though maybe not for the exact same reasons. The argument that guns existed in an overlapping time period with swords has no merit here.
I stand by my original statement in earlier posts. It would be simple to leave guns out of the base game, and let the mod community make them. This would make both parties happy by ensuring the base game stays true to what we have enjoyed so far, and those who want guns can get them added if they wish. Easier to use a mod to add guns to the game than use a mod to remove them in my opinion.
I have said it, others have said it, perhaps even you have said it: Ultimately the decision is up to Chris. This is his vision, not ours. Since I have enjoyed the game as it is so far, just like many of you have, I am sure that whatever he decides will continue to be an enjoyable experience. I think if anything, further posts on this should be made to the Feature Request forum since it is not already in the game and therefore not a Gameplay topic. Perhaps we could actually get this post moved there since it is so popular already?
Anyway, I thank anyone who takes the time to read all this stuff. While I realize I can rant from time to time, I try to stay on topic as much as possible. Thanks again.
Bancheis
Even though I did literally lol, I realize it was rude to post that. I'm editing my posts to delete that part. Sorry for being immature.
And btw, I was mentioning the overlapping time periods to demonstrate that even though they did exist together at the same time in many parts of the world, there are still many more parts of the world that never had guns, fully validating 'historically' the possibility of a civilization without guns. It was to counter the argument that "since it happened in Japan, it should happen in Kenshi!"
But I'm right up your alley when you're talking about the game being a completely unknown and foreign world where none of what we know applies, for all we know. I have to keep reminding myself that it is, and even sometimes I forget and slip into using my old rules/knowledge.
(I just can't get over the sheet metal on top of the wells! )
And btw, I was mentioning the overlapping time periods to demonstrate that even though they did exist together at the same time in many parts of the world, there are still many more parts of the world that never had guns, fully validating 'historically' the possibility of a civilization without guns. It was to counter the argument that "since it happened in Japan, it should happen in Kenshi!"
But I'm right up your alley when you're talking about the game being a completely unknown and foreign world where none of what we know applies, for all we know. I have to keep reminding myself that it is, and even sometimes I forget and slip into using my old rules/knowledge.
(I just can't get over the sheet metal on top of the wells!
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Cyber_Donkey
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Elephants. This thread was getting irrelephant. (j/k)
I would love the idea of having a bunch of low end smooth bore long guns. Very inaccurate, huge load time, and shorter range than a bow/arrow, but with a big punch when they DID hit.
They'd be great for weakening the enemy, before you met them face to face. You could line up, fire a volley, MAYBE two, and then counter charge using your secondary weapon. It'd be great in my opinion.
But, as someone else said, this is all up to the guy making the game. I support whatever decision he makes. He's already made a game that I would buy full price, and it's not even half way finished. I don't like when games stray from their original vision to suit the desires of the masses, because when you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing nobody.
I would love the idea of having a bunch of low end smooth bore long guns. Very inaccurate, huge load time, and shorter range than a bow/arrow, but with a big punch when they DID hit.
They'd be great for weakening the enemy, before you met them face to face. You could line up, fire a volley, MAYBE two, and then counter charge using your secondary weapon. It'd be great in my opinion.
But, as someone else said, this is all up to the guy making the game. I support whatever decision he makes. He's already made a game that I would buy full price, and it's not even half way finished. I don't like when games stray from their original vision to suit the desires of the masses, because when you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing nobody.
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iSuck345
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Finally, someone who doesn't automatically assume it's an apocalypse, took long enough for one to show up.Bancheis wrote:We don't really know if there even was an apocalypse here. Perhaps this is the natural evolution of this world.
Bancheis
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
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This... this... so very this.Cyber_Donkey wrote: .... I don't like when games stray from their original vision to suit the desires of the masses, because when you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing nobody.
I'd like to preface this post with this above idea. Keep it, hold it dear. Kenshi's present charm is these things that make you wonder "Why?". It's ability to attract and keep thinking people is in part, I suspect, that it feels genuinely creative and fresh. "Cliche' free" to paraphrase the developer. This is because it is wide open, and seemingly full of possibilities for it's emptiness. This lack gives the player the freedom to pencil in whatever thoughts or explanations suit his fancy. That's not always going to be true.
BUT if that could be made to persist as long as possible, even through the gameplay, I think very much that it would lend quite a bit to the feel of the final game.
That aside, my explanations have settled somewhat firmly in the anti-firearm camp. While I love a brace of pistols as much as the next guy, the title, and thus, I suspect, the developer's vision, don't seem to lend themselves to that. (Well at least beyond the seaxes and tricorn hats.)
What follows are probably some pretty basic ideas to many posters around here, but I wanted to articulate them, in detail, just in case.
Given some of the comments I've read from the developer ("monsters" for example), and what I see ingame (A hangar, stencil marks on the floorboards, odd tech patterns.), I'm visualising a lost or catastrophicly failed colony event. A significantly young culture (full of all of the immaturities that come with youth) built around a scavenger mentality. Sciences could have died with the engineers for any number of reasons, or maybe this just isn't the part of the world they landed in.
No need for innovation when there's already a 'thing' out there that does what you need, you just have to find it. Thus ingame 'research' isn't innovation, rather simply trying to figure out how to work what you already have. Like say fragments of a digital encyclopedia on everything a civilian needs to know in a colony setting. With just a dash of certain political beliefs about weapons in civilian hands behind the content of said encyclopedia, I see the present appearance of Kenshi culture and tech as totally viable. Maybe that historical section about katanas is all that has been recovered in the way of 'how to kill people', and it took the colonists by storm. Better still, maybe it was contraband.
The fall from extremely high tech is very far. How many of us could manufacture a computing machine with prehistoric materials? Even a mechanical one? Of those, how many would have the gumption, or even hold that as a priority when people don't have water? This of course assuming that all of the component knowledge could be passed down and interpreted intact through generations in a basic survival situation. What utility would there be for such abstract component knowledge to a third generation child being raised in a wholly different culture than his predecessors?
This last point I think is the most important. Anyone with kids can attest that instilling in them what you believe is important can be very challenging if everything in their world is telling them something else. Go ask a single parent in the ghetto, a Christian that wants their child to have a degree, or more on point, an engineer. Talk to a youngster about following their parent's path or making their own way. Reference The Lord of the Flies or The Good Earth trilogy for ways this just goes wrong.
If ranged combat is present beyond the most utterly basic ideas, it's my opinion that it should always be in line with the kenshi being the king of battle. For example: a three hundred pound mining atomizer that's worn as a harness rig, shoots fifteen feet, vaporises what it hits, charges for ten minutes between shots, and is FAR more useful in upgrading your mining machine to extract a rare essential mineral, or maybe as a turret for the guns over butter minded. This all assuming you can power the thing. Given that all of the catalytic micro reactor power cells were probably depleted two hundred years ago; and after another four generations of use as "cats", were hammered flat for ease of transport by some clever innovator. ("Dead-Cats")
Now these are just conjected ideas that may or may not have a damn thing to do with what the developer actually has in mind. I'll wager he's keeping his options open, and considering new ideas that fall within his vision because they seem good and fit, but if he's wise, I seriously doubt he'll give a moment's thought to a couple of persons trying to rudely press their regurgitated versions of someone else's vision down the forum's throat, on this issue, and others.
Apologies to the forum, and those who want this thread to die, for the dead horse beating brain vomit, but it had to come out. I'm done now.
Arqebuse could be useful, i guess.
It will not spoil the overall style of the game, and its easy to balance.
And it will be easy to implement it into the crafting system, because there is large amount of kinds of ammo and weapon itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus
Discuss.
It will not spoil the overall style of the game, and its easy to balance.
And it will be easy to implement it into the crafting system, because there is large amount of kinds of ammo and weapon itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus
Discuss.
Woah...I will not waste my time reading the whole topic of this discussion...granted there are lots of interesting point of views...you know stuff like this had happened to politician and theologian alike over what is right or wrong and what is for the good of all....my god is better than your gods...bla bla bla...
Instead of bickering just go and make a firearm mod. Sure Chris envision this game to be totally without firearms, mount/vehicles and magic...but why waste all the effort discussing the what if situation?
Now Chris is making and designing an epic game platform, just remind him and give suggestions to him to provide the tools for modders to do whatever they want with the game...I don't think he'll mind much if the modders community would mangle and mash it into something else...Halflife begets counterstrike, warcraft begets dota, arma begets something-something-I-don't-remember-the-name...so and so...
I'd love to see someone making a wild west mod or the lone wolf saga (yes, I still read AND enjoys playing the adventure book...*shrugs* I'm an ancient being), heck even a remake of Halflife using kenshi...people, it's time pick up all your childhood fantasies and make them into a game reality.
I am waiting with glee...
Instead of bickering just go and make a firearm mod. Sure Chris envision this game to be totally without firearms, mount/vehicles and magic...but why waste all the effort discussing the what if situation?
Now Chris is making and designing an epic game platform, just remind him and give suggestions to him to provide the tools for modders to do whatever they want with the game...I don't think he'll mind much if the modders community would mangle and mash it into something else...Halflife begets counterstrike, warcraft begets dota, arma begets something-something-I-don't-remember-the-name...so and so...
I'd love to see someone making a wild west mod or the lone wolf saga (yes, I still read AND enjoys playing the adventure book...*shrugs* I'm an ancient being), heck even a remake of Halflife using kenshi...people, it's time pick up all your childhood fantasies and make them into a game reality.
I am waiting with glee...
Well.......
After finally going through the sea of comments and reading almost every opinion/idea, comment, or rage; I would like to include my own two cents.
I am for the inclusion of guns, however guns tread on very dangerous ground and must be treated uniquely. The main reason I want guns in the game is to improve variety, but I will not sacrifice a lack in gameplay for it. But I believe there is a middle ground between variety and gameplay that can be exploited to include guns. My personal ideal gun scenario would be this.
In swords there are multiple different types from a katana to an axe, from a nodachi to the new soon to be added cleaver. My ideal situation is a spin off of this for ranged weaponry. I believe that there should be two main categories of ranged weapon bows and harpoons, however both categories will then both be split up again into smaller groups with specific variations. Bows could be split into smaller groups of short, recurve, and long bow. While harpoon guns on the other hand could be split into spring, pneumatic(air powered), and powder.
Now having said this I would like to explain how this would work without destroying the great combat foundation already found in kenshi.
First off I believe any unit using a harpoon/bow, that is not carrying a secondary weapon would be useless in combat, thereby easily killed by a sword charge.
Next going into more detail about the categories of bows and harpoons. Again this is all just my opinion think of it what you will.
Bows- Shoot the faster than harpoon gun but cause less damage and have minor armor pierce
Short- can shoot faster at the sacrifice of power and range
Recurve- more advanced sacrifices speed for power and range
Long Bow- Middle ground between the two as better versions are bought range/power increases
Harpoon guns- Shoot slower in general have more damage and a greater armor pierce in general
Spring- Long reload time, average range, good power
pneumatic- Faster reload time (still slower than bows) for less range and damage
Powder- Require more recourses and are much more expensive and rare in general extremely long reload times, and require a little period of set up before use. The powder weapons sacrifice these for a greater damage and armor pierce. However the extreme reload time must be at least three times that of a standard harpoon gun. Only two versions of powder weapons should be released a blunder buss and a long range black powder. Both of these only have one use and that is to eliminate those pesky leaders and bosses who can take on entries squads in melee combat.
Again this is just my idea on how guns should be included in the game, what you take it for is up to you.
Well that's it I guess keep playing, support the cause, and game makers keep up the hard work
LonerWolf
Long Post
Ps... (For those of you that just skipped to the end this is just a post about my personal idea, on how to include guns, and ranged weapons in general, in a fair and fun way. Read it if you want)
After finally going through the sea of comments and reading almost every opinion/idea, comment, or rage; I would like to include my own two cents.
I am for the inclusion of guns, however guns tread on very dangerous ground and must be treated uniquely. The main reason I want guns in the game is to improve variety, but I will not sacrifice a lack in gameplay for it. But I believe there is a middle ground between variety and gameplay that can be exploited to include guns. My personal ideal gun scenario would be this.
In swords there are multiple different types from a katana to an axe, from a nodachi to the new soon to be added cleaver. My ideal situation is a spin off of this for ranged weaponry. I believe that there should be two main categories of ranged weapon bows and harpoons, however both categories will then both be split up again into smaller groups with specific variations. Bows could be split into smaller groups of short, recurve, and long bow. While harpoon guns on the other hand could be split into spring, pneumatic(air powered), and powder.
Now having said this I would like to explain how this would work without destroying the great combat foundation already found in kenshi.
First off I believe any unit using a harpoon/bow, that is not carrying a secondary weapon would be useless in combat, thereby easily killed by a sword charge.
Next going into more detail about the categories of bows and harpoons. Again this is all just my opinion think of it what you will.
Bows- Shoot the faster than harpoon gun but cause less damage and have minor armor pierce
Short- can shoot faster at the sacrifice of power and range
Recurve- more advanced sacrifices speed for power and range
Long Bow- Middle ground between the two as better versions are bought range/power increases
Harpoon guns- Shoot slower in general have more damage and a greater armor pierce in general
Spring- Long reload time, average range, good power
pneumatic- Faster reload time (still slower than bows) for less range and damage
Powder- Require more recourses and are much more expensive and rare in general extremely long reload times, and require a little period of set up before use. The powder weapons sacrifice these for a greater damage and armor pierce. However the extreme reload time must be at least three times that of a standard harpoon gun. Only two versions of powder weapons should be released a blunder buss and a long range black powder. Both of these only have one use and that is to eliminate those pesky leaders and bosses who can take on entries squads in melee combat.
Again this is just my idea on how guns should be included in the game, what you take it for is up to you.
Well that's it I guess keep playing, support the cause, and game makers keep up the hard work
LonerWolf
Long Post
Ps... (For those of you that just skipped to the end this is just a post about my personal idea, on how to include guns, and ranged weapons in general, in a fair and fun way. Read it if you want)
I for one think guns should not be in the world of Kenshi, it would almost be a useless effort trying to balance them for one, some people suggest an extensive reload time, and reduced accuracy, but what the hell would be the point of using them, if a bandit group is already cought up with you, before you're even half way loading a gun?! (asuming the first shot wil miss due to the bad accuracy).
A gun should disable a target in one shot, if you get shot in the arm, there's no way you're gona go back in and try to fight your enemy with your other arm like a complete retard <---excuse my french.
Guns are simply to hard to get into the game without destroying it's combat system completelly + I love the feel of kenshi as it is, bows are quite acceptable, you keep the old age kindoff feel in the game.
A gun should disable a target in one shot, if you get shot in the arm, there's no way you're gona go back in and try to fight your enemy with your other arm like a complete retard <---excuse my french.
Guns are simply to hard to get into the game without destroying it's combat system completelly + I love the feel of kenshi as it is, bows are quite acceptable, you keep the old age kindoff feel in the game.
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