Super-easy start mode

[Danzigsam]

Some people like to just jump into a game without much reading and learn it that way. It might be worthwhile to have a starting scenario where you get like four guys with good skills and equipment.

[Hatsune_Neko]

seen that a few times on Steam.
They got the info for starters but still never read up on it. then complain its to hard.
But you can use the Forgotten Construction set to edit your guys stats.

Not sure on the super easy start thou. kinda takes the fun out of the game if you don't claw your way up to get your squad to the point they can fight your first group of hungry bandits and win.. But is sure someone will make a Mod for it or Chris mite make a start like that. Who knows.

[Tolwrath]

I disagree with this completely for 2 main reasons.
1. The main theme of the game is "through hard work and perseverance a nobody can become truly great". Or for you fans of Planescape "Endure. In enduring, grow stronger." The whole point (especially before the alternate starts) is that you are a nobody. You are not superior and you are not strong. In fact, you're worse than an average peasant. With hard work you can change that.
Starting off stronger defeats this theme by putting you on even ground with the challenges of the world right from the get-go.
2. It cheats you out of one of the most enlightening experiences in gaming. Invariably, everyone's first game (if they haven't read a guide beforehand) is that the take their starting character, alone, and go try to kill some bandits for profit. This results in the player's death. In those first 15 minutes Kenshi teaches players how stupid their expectations they picked up from other games, of a single untrained, inexperienced person trying to fight a group of people who kill people for a living, truly is.

[hbrown]

They need to learn that if they able to surpass the difficulties they will feel more rewarded.

I know i might have some time in Kenshi, but i got a few starts lately and i haven´t played so much especially in the start, but latest ones i did (rock bottom and the stolen sword, forgot name), were not so hard, and i did not even stick so much to the run to the soldiers tatic, i actually have no idea what i did in the start, i just remember to really go to the bandits and fight them, weird enough when i might do what they do, i guess i just pick my fights right, 2 groups of bandits fight each other, i get in the middle, or i had the luck to be close to some traders passing afar, tho most times they just started run when i went close...

I am somewhat divided in this one tho, of course having multiple starts, from easy to hard is normal and diverse, but too easy goes kinda against the nature of the game as Tolwrath said, i think the start from Old soldier is even already easy as it is, a good team material stuff, you na ditch them for cats and buy more guys or get better equips, not to mention the legendary sword start at the moment is kinda, well easy as well, start save load, and you got a good sword and no enemies, still had same trouble with that character tho, despite the first and best sword, all other chars surpassed him lol.

Only way to see a start that easy, would have to be limited other place to "balance", like you are good and all, but you bind to a certain faction on the start or to a thing, so you loose a freedom for a while or need to earn it, but in that case you could earn an extra enemy, unless you took the time to be without one etc. At the same time sounds like the thing to be used for a toutorial or demo alone tho, to me this is.

And someone throw a rock at me, I am typing too much...

[Danzigsam]

seen that a few times on Steam.
They got the info for starters but still never read up on it. then complain its to hard.
But you can use the Forgotten Construction set to edit your guys stats.

Not sure on the super easy start thou. kinda takes the fun out of the game if you don't claw your way up to get your squad to the point they can fight your first group of hungry bandits and win.. But is sure someone will make a Mod for it or Chris mite make a start like that. Who knows.

Saying "use the construction set" or "install a mod" kind of misses the point of making it easy for the less studious-minded...

I totally agree with you guys on how it should be played. But its not how everybody plays is my point. Some people like to learn by fiddling around with it and THEN starting up a serious game once they have a handle. And of course, some people do like to just cheat and ruin the whole game for themselves - but they're gonna do that in any case.

Edit: Maybe put a 30-day lifespan on the Super-Easy mode?

[Hatsune_Neko]

Saying "use the construction set" or "install a mod" kind of misses the point of making it easy for the less studious-minded...

true but someone will say it sooner or later.
course didn't say editing it would be easy
just that its a option.

[hbrown]

And a dangerous one, i tried to edit some stuff and i stopped, felt like some stuff was breaking, i think i made the game slower to load...

[Enjoyment]

you had to follow the main rule - "going to change something? backup it!" ) Though, i don't really think i could slow your game. Break - easy, but slow... Can't imagine. Meaning by using the FCS

[hbrown]

Well idk if it did or not but by now seems good, and i had it backed up already if i am not wrong.

[sleven07]

Some people like to just jump into a game without much reading and learn it that way. It might be worthwhile to have a starting scenario where you get like four guys with good skills and equipment.

Don't really agree on this one, it would just take out all the fun to play this game...o.O..never saw an rpg where you start in a ''godmode'' and would not really appreciate it..Kinda lazy way to approach games if you ask me...

[Danzigsam]

Some people like to just jump into a game without much reading and learn it that way. It might be worthwhile to have a starting scenario where you get like four guys with good skills and equipment.

Don't really agree on this one, it would just take out all the fun to play this game...o.O..never saw an rpg where you start in a ''godmode'' and would not really appreciate it..Kinda lazy way to approach games if you ask me...

Then... don't start with that option? I wasn't suggesting forcing anyone to start in "godmode." o.O

The question is, do you want people to play the way you play, or do you want more people to buy the game so Chris gets monies and finishes the game? Elitism kills startup games.

I don't start that way myself. But, as I said, some people learn by doing better than by studying. People are different.

[Hatsune_Neko]

Don't think not having 4 people at high stats for a easy mode is gonna stop people from buying the game.
or deter them.

For me that was the selling point of the game when i read it. I went, finally a game that don't cater to the vast majority of players. and even better it will never have Multiplayer!!! a even bigger selling point to me.

Most people i have seen that want a easy mode are usually ones who do not read up on the game. And it wouldn't be the first time i have delt with them, they get all mad and pissy cause the game isn't easy for them. then they get mad at me cause i tell em to go read up on the game.

Sure when you first start, the game can be difficult. but thats how its supposed to be. With the game starting out , showing that you are not special, or super, and that even the lowly weakest bandits out there can kick your beehind.

So a easy mode defeats the purpose of this game.
if one wants easy, mod the game.

[LostSaint6689]

Don't be a p***y. Play the game the way its meant to be played. If you don't play like a moron and save often the game is far from impossible. When i started there was only one start option and you were seriously the weakest mofo in the game... over twenty hours later and my character was on his way to being the total bad ass he is now. Patience is key, this is not a fast paced game made to make the ADHD kids happy.

As for a mode for the less studious, i started the game with no reading or research into it and figured it out just fine the hard way. I am one of those people who learns better by doing.

also now there is new start options if you want easy mode (i forget its name) pick the start option that begins you with four people and materials and blueprints to start a town. it also gives you a reasonably strong warrior capable of taking down bandits on his own (watch out for those ninja still though).

most importantly take advantage of the fracking technology available to you. watch videos of the game on youtube, read up on it there are many reviews around. Also the steam store page sets you up for exactly what you should expect. You are not the hero, you are just another guy or girl trying to pave their way in an unforgivable world.

Its not hard to create your own start option, edit the characters starting equipment (or money so you can just buy good gear) and abilities. took me about ten minutes of work to do this for my second save i use to test things on.

[LostSaint6689]

i would also like to point out that i don't think Chris is rushing to finish the game. he has said in interviews, he is building the game HE always wanted. if people buy it and enjoy then it will make him happy.... lol dont quote me on this, i could be mistaken with another indie dev interview i read but im about 90% sure it was Chris's interview i was reading.

regardless of that, EVERYONE i have introduced to this game absolutely loves it and the challenge it presents. Sadly players today are spoiled with games that spoon feed them like the little babies they are... some developers have become slaves to their lazy overly demanding consumers and have lost sight of the way games should be.

whew... sorry i just vented a little. good job Chris! do what you do!

Also I apologize If I am coming off as a bit rash. I don't mean to... Blame the Marine in me.

[LieutenantWolf]

There's just as much negativity in this thread as there is intelligent reasoning, so I'll just throw in my thoughts. There are difficult games out there, of this I have no doubt, and Kenshi is certainly among the more difficult ones. However, pinpointing where the game gets difficult and 'softening the blow', so to speak, is where any sort of difficulty changes should be (and currently are, if you've taken the time to explore the starting options) implemented.

Starting a game as the Wanderer, or what any rational person would consider the 'normal' difficulty, is probably the easiest the game should get. The player starts in a safe area, the "first town", with a portion of funds capable of hiring a second squadmate, and a couple of medkits to ensure some sort of survivability following whatever first failed encounter there's bound to be. There's no unfair level of difficulty here. From this relatively safe starting point, the player has a wealth of control over the next stages of their game, and only through these actions can they 'make the game excessively hard.'

Maybe detail the starting options better, and offer some comparisons to what sort of traditional difficulties one might expect from these pre-game choices, but don't offer such an easy route. It really does defeat the purpose of the game.

[Danzigsam]

Pu**ies and morons have money too. Again, my point is, sales are good for the game that we love.

You can still point and laugh and denigrate people who play easy mode. If, you know, that's what you're into.

[Danzigsam]

Its not hard to create your own start option, edit the characters starting equipment (or money so you can just buy good gear) and abilities. took me about ten minutes of work to do this for my second save i use to test things on.

..and then you make a point for having an easy option.

[LieutenantWolf]

Pu**ies and morons have money too. Again, my point is, sales are good for the game that we love.

You can still point and laugh and denigrate people who play easy mode. If, you know, that's what you're into.

Why do you think Demon's Souls/Dark Souls never offered an 'easy route', and even went so far as to advertise the slogan "Prepare To Die" in reference to its notoriously difficult reputation? Who says that this game should belittle itself and circumvent the main purpose of its existence, just to appease a low minority of players who're too scared to face any degree of challenge from their video games? Kenshi offers a scalable level of difficulty through its gameplay, and that, I think, is the most healthy option.

[Hatsune_Neko]

kinda like kenshi's
How will you die today
slogan.

[Danzigsam]

Pu**ies and morons have money too. Again, my point is, sales are good for the game that we love.

You can still point and laugh and denigrate people who play easy mode. If, you know, that's what you're into.

Why do you think Demon's Souls/Dark Souls never offered an 'easy route', and even went so far as to advertise the slogan "Prepare To Die" in reference to its notoriously difficult reputation? Who says that this game should belittle itself and circumvent the main purpose of its existence, just to appease a low minority of players who're too scared to face any degree of challenge from their video games? Kenshi offers a scalable level of difficulty through its gameplay, and that, I think, is the most healthy option.

I'm not familiar with that game(s).

Low minority? I don't think we have any solid figures on that one way or the other. How many people download the demo but are quickly discouraged? Can't say.

But as Lostsaint says above, he was rather quickly able to make a super-easy start for himself. Might as well just put it in to begin with, without making people have to look up how to do it.

I see what you guys are saying about the difficulty level. I agree... for my own game. But I don't see how having the option would change YOUR enjoyment of the game. Why you gotta tell other people how to play? Its their game. I don't get it.

Belittle? Circumvent its purpose? Its a game. Its to be enjoyed. People enjoy things in different ways. If you want bragging rights, just say you don't use easy mode.