So what weapons do you prefer?

[xksimon]

Heavy Class Weapon is kinda OP. Seriously,
Once your both Defense and Attack Skill are 20+ or something.
You should be around 35-45 STR at the same time.

Basically 1 hit = 1 part of your enemy are broken/Just die.
Not to say how powerful when deals deadly dmg to muti-enemy at the same time.
Kinda easy to solo a city of police with this OP type weapon.

And yes, you need time to train it up,
DEX is not needed as your attack skill would help you boosting your attack speed as well.
High defense skill also make you won't get killed even facing a group of 30.

OP? What are you talking about, your swinging a 200 lb chunk of metal at someone, namely some untrained bandit, or your average policeman with a sword.
It's going to take them out in 2-3 swings depending where you hit.
It was supposed to be the best weapon once mastered.

You also have to take into account that with the way the game is right now, enemy squads are dying before they level up.
I was tinkering around with the global exp rates. Turns out, the enemies are not static in strength. They wont scale with the player, but if you find a dust bandit group that got luck and won the first 4-5 battles, they might get to a point where you are the only one that can take them down. They most likely will be able to hire other people as well.
So when it comes to considering whether or not something is OP.
Remember, Chris is going for realistic.(If you get hit by a katana, it's gonna suck)
It's also really early in the game.
And the plank may hit for 400, but when better armor comes in and you have other ways to resist it...
As well as, I don't know about you, but one of my guys with a katana hits for 80 on average.

What I said OP is because: If a swing hit somebody, if the swing hit more than 1 enemy.
Then probably you would saw 4-5 guys fell down at the same time.
Or seeing 2-3 men down + 2-3 weapon dropped (broken right arms).

Of course, there are still a lot of things isn't in the game yet.
That's why I am talking about CURRENT PATCH and CURRENT STATE.

The fact is: Your kata hit 80 for avaerage, if we got same ATK and DEF skill, normal STR and DEX for us (To you, which is you got better DEX --> AS, and i got better STR ---> HP too)

You might need to hit me 3-4 to the SAME position in order to shut me down.
However I just need 1 hit to the right position, and you are done.

1 more different between 2 weapons is:
1.Heavy Class would make sure somebody becoming disable for a long time/Even dead for him.
2.Kata might able to brust down someone but it probably won't able to kill someone so easily.

[lkenage]

I would imagine that in the final release of the game, certain weapons will be easier to master. Given that heavy weapons become so powerful later, you still need to remember that levelling it up early game sucks, you can't block any 2-hit combos for a while. Also, heavy weapons are ridiculously slow, it makes it easy for opponents to sneak a hit in after your swing.

Also, not all the armor has been implemented yet. If you noticed, only coats, light armor, and medium armors are for sale. I would imagine that some sort of "heavy" armor would eventually be released as well.

[SynysterOne]

1 more different between 2 weapons is:
1.Heavy Class would make sure somebody becoming disable for a long time/Even dead for him.
2.Kata might able to brust down someone but it probably won't able to kill someone so easily.

Wont be able to kill someone so easily? Have you not 2 shotted someone with a katana before?

Strength affects your blunt damage, carrying capacity and stamina. NOT hp.
Dexterity affects your cutting damage, block chance, block speed, attack chance, attack speed, and hit chance.
(Open your stats in-game and mouse over them)

The plank WILL be the best melee weapon because it is supposed to be. The trade-off being you won't master it for a long time.
Mastering it involves first using the katana for a long period of time to build your dexterity and offensive skill.


But alas, the moment the bow/harpoon gun are released you will complain how they are overpowered.

This is a single player game, you don't have to use something if you think it ruins the game. It's not like you are competing against other players who are exploiting imbalances.
As well if you really feel the need, the construction set is really easy to use and you can altogether remove heavy weapons or just mod them down to be weaker.

[xksimon]

1 more different between 2 weapons is:
1.Heavy Class would make sure somebody becoming disable for a long time/Even dead for him.
2.Kata might able to brust down someone but it probably won't able to kill someone so easily.

Wont be able to kill someone so easily? Have you not 2 shotted someone with a katana before?

Strength affects your blunt damage, carrying capacity and stamina. NOT hp.
Dexterity affects your cutting damage, block chance, block speed, attack chance, attack speed, and hit chance.
(Open your stats in-game and mouse over them)

The plank WILL be the best melee weapon because it is supposed to be. The trade-off being you won't master it for a long time.
Mastering it involves first using the katana for a long period of time to build your dexterity and offensive skill.


But alas, the moment the bow/harpoon gun are released you will complain how they are overpowered.

This is a single player game, you don't have to use something if you think it ruins the game. It's not like you are competing against other players who are exploiting imbalances.
As well if you really feel the need, the construction set is really easy to use and you can altogether remove heavy weapons or just mod them down to be weaker.

Of cause I know how powerful of kata are. but to me,
With my late game stats, 1 Swing KO-ed all kata user in the group so easily.
And my DEX is still below 10 or something, even surrendered by 15+ enemy.
With the high value of both attack and def skill, countering is still a no problem for me.

A little tip for everyone: Start a new character, turn on the block mode, keep training your def skill till 30+(20 Block), then you could turn off the block mode, and train whatever weapon you are easily, as your enemy can't hit you at all

And I last time.. I am talking about CURRENTLY setting, but not the final one.
Give me a break about what armor or weapon hadn't imported yet and something like that.

[Potocobe]

I've got a guy with attack and dexterity in the 60s, strength around 80 and defense at 75. He one shots everyone he sees with a 2.6cut topper (the red handled one). He is easily doing 145 +X on unarmored parts and armored parts alike. I can set game speed to fastest and attack one shop guard in a town and in a minute or two everyone in that town is dead with hardly a scratch on my character. I think all the weapons are overpowered. His katana skill is 49 and the other skills are less than 5 but any of the red handled weapons is a one-shot-to-the-head kill. The topper kills people faster than any other weapon once the damage is that high. I haven't tried getting any other weapon skills into the 40s but I imagine the results will be the same. Katanas are just faster hands down. Once you cross that threshold of 100 or more damage per swing faster becomes better than more damage.

Better armor will likely negate the speed advantage although you have to wonder what affect the skills have on your damage output. Could it be that high skill allows you to find weak points in armor? And without coifs and helmets slices to someones head are always going to take them out instantly if not take off the head.

If two characters of equal stats in the 60s duel; the first one to hit the other will likely win. Especially once severed limbs is added. This game is going to be brutal when it's done. I can't wait.

[Captain Deathbeard]

melee defence skill increases damage resistance too, so 2 high level characters shouldn't one-shot each other (in theory).

I might have to tone down the high-level equipment slightly. But the idea is also that it should take a very long time to get to that high level. How much effort did it take you guys to get to uber-levels? Have you been grinding like crazy or was it too easy?

[Comichoso]

I had a squad of 5 with no heavy weapon users untill i saw this thread and ive been practicing with bandits only, for a total of maybe 5 hours and they are pretty much capable of taking out a town on their own, their stats are around 40-50. So yeah pretty easy to get very strong very fast.
Oh and getting top equipment and lots of credits, pretty easy as well, of course it involves the little exploit of re-importing the team because you have to target the officers.
Cheers.

[Temper]

Hi everyone !

I started playing with a squad of six,but they did get too strong too fast,so I started from scratch with a new game and employed the services of all sixteen available henchmen ASAP,with the rule of no exporting/importing.

The game works fine this way and they are leveling a lot slower,good armor/weapons from guards killing each other is not available except for the one time that the NPCs go apeshit on themselves in Capital.... without fail.

I don't see much of a problem with leveling too fast if people are going to work the system,it's their choice really.

We choose ourselves the difficulty for fun.Hope you know what I mean.For instance if you are going to kill off whole towns without consequence that's fine,that's your style of fun.But others of us deal with the consequences that brings to them in a single game.

That's why at a later date it would be good to have a save and exit (hardcore) option and a save current (normal) option,like Mount and Blade Warband.

So I guess what I'm saying is,for 1-6 characters using new game with import,yes it's too fast.For 16 characters using load or F9 no it's not.

At least in the games current state that's my opinion.When the game is further along maybe I'll change my mind,who knows.

Temper

[Potocobe]

I started a new character two days ago, I've used the new and import option maybe ten times. Most of that characters skills are in the 60s and up. He is unstoppable now. Before that I had a squad of five guys, two of which were in the 30s to 40s skillwise, and I only had them fighting bandits and ninjas. The main character was already one shotting with head and stomach shots. As you know I can't have been playing for more than a week. The damage curve just needs to be pushed up to the higher numbers.

By the way, what does cut dampening do? Does it make cut damage behave like blunt damage? And what damage is the + (x) damage representing?

[Dzen]

I wouldn't call using of balance holes a "game style". When someone can become strong enough for devastating cities full of guards with few men that's just wrong, I don't even talk about current speed of leveling.

[SynysterOne]

melee defence skill increases damage resistance too, so 2 high level characters shouldn't one-shot each other (in theory).

I might have to tone down the high-level equipment slightly. But the idea is also that it should take a very long time to get to that high level. How much effort did it take you guys to get to uber-levels? Have you been grinding like crazy or was it too easy?

The leveling rate is just a LITTLE bit fast right now Chris.
But I think the strength leveling is WAAAY off.
I think you have the strength multiplier at .05x right?
If i got this right that means that .05% of the weight of the weapon turns into a strength multiplier.
So...100KG weapon = 5x strength exp gain.

Which seems accurate because when using a 100kg weapon. You get a strength per swing. I didn't watch specifically, but I equipped one of my new swords for hire with a fragment axe and 7-8 fights later, taking turns hitting the enemy with the veterans fighters on my team mind you, he's at 60 strength.

I know this was not the rate intended, and will be looking through the CS to see what can be done. Although I don't think I can reduce the rate for the heavy weapon strength growth without essentially dropping the katana and other weapon growth to nothing.

Also Chris, it appears that the defensive skill does nothing to opponents with equal values in attack skill.
At roughly 30 defense skill you'll noticed bandits doing 5-8 damage to you but town guards still do some damage. The difference is that the town guards have 10 more offensive skill than the bandits, well and better gear.

When someone can become strong enough for devastating cities full of guards with few men that's just wrong

I"m pretty sure this was intended.
Even with 1 person, it was supposed to be possible.

You don't start as the 'hero' but that doesn't mean you can't become one....

Keep in mind that cities will have turrets and archers on the walls in the end....

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And everyone, please keep in mind. If you nerf weapons, it's not going to balance the game. It will nerf the strength of the AI as well seeing as they use the same weapons you do......
Your character is getting stronger and the NPC's are not. This is supposed to happen.
You get to a point where EVERY weapon 1 shots people. Some(heavy weapons)may get there faster, but others(katanas)will have better all around combat skills.

Some of you may not understand this yet, but the NPC's don't have set in stone stats.
They don't do ##-## damage and such.
They are equipped with a weapon, same as your character which will affect their damage to an extent.
They have the same stats your character has.(not values but e.x. strength/dexterity)
They CAN level up when they engage in combat. But, due to the games current state they aren't. I believe this has to do with the way the game spawns squads.


Chris, if you run out of a zone and back into it far enough to cause it to load again, is it possible the NPC's are resetting to their base strength?
I havn't come across any strong squads as you would expect to, considering none of the NPC's manage to do lethal damage so all of the NPC's get back up off the ground eventually and live to fight another day.



I know this is a lot to read, my apologies. I would TL:DR but it's kind of hard to sum it all up.

[Dzen]

I"m pretty sure this was intended.
Even with 1 person, it was supposed to be possible.

You don't start as the 'hero' but that doesn't mean you can't become one....

It may be normal for some slasher, but even if add 1% of realism even best swordsman will have no chances against such crowd.

[Captain Deathbeard]

I don't mind a high level character slaughtering a city, but it should be harder, and it should take an epic amount of training.

[P-Cat]

I think part of the problem with singular characters becoming too powerful too quickly, is that the AI doesn't seem to manage flanking tactics very effectively. I see a lot of instances during fights when groups of enemies should be able to take pot-shots at characters who have their attention turned elsewhere, but instead like to stay back cautiously biding their time.

Now, I really like that you have allies keep their distance from each other and not just bunch up into mobs swords a-swinging (I'm looking at you Mount and Blade), but I think if the side with larger numbers was better able to take advantage of that, it would make it harder for players to slaughter them quite as easily as they do (at least without getting a few numbers themselves!).

[Potocobe]

That would take away those moments where sometimes two people are dueling it out and everyone just hangs back and watches for a bit cause they are really going at it or whatever. It's entertaining, when you are lower in skills, the way a guy with a katana can just bounce back and forth through dozens of enemies and not kill anyone for a while. People are stumbling back and holding their eyes and arms or standing armless in shock. When your skills are high it is over so quick there is less of a feeling of triumph. You know that no one is a match for you. If there was such a person you would go fight them.

If you were always quickly surrounded and constantly attacked you wouldn't be able to flow through a crowd like that. Plus corpses would always be arranged in rings around where you chopped them down one by one. And that would ruin the chaotic way the battles can rage across a town and spill out into the desert leaving a broken trail of bodies and swords.

[Captain Deathbeard]

I can adjust that. There is a parameter to set the max num of attackers any character can have at one time. I can notch it up one, this means characters don't idle as much and they gang up more and it looks better, but the down side is that high level characters get slaughtered by numerous low-level characters, and the outcome of a battle depends much more on numbers than character skill

[Opex]

I can adjust that. There is a parameter to set the max num of attackers any character can have at one time. I can notch it up one, this means characters don't idle as much and they gang up more and it looks better, but the down side is that high level characters get slaughtered by numerous low-level characters, and the outcome of a battle depends much more on numbers than character skill

Maybe some distinct counter attacks would do the job, I'm talking about different attack class? It could make skill more valuable than numbers...

[P-Cat]

I can adjust that. There is a parameter to set the max num of attackers any character can have at one time. I can notch it up one, this means characters don't idle as much and they gang up more and it looks better, but the down side is that high level characters get slaughtered by numerous low-level characters, and the outcome of a battle depends much more on numbers than character skill

I think that would be a good idea. The max attackers just seems is slightly too low at this point, and I trust you not to raise it too high .

[SynysterOne]

He will will have to raise the size of armies into the 100's and up to take down cities.
Cities will have archers and turrets on walls, as well as most likely proper gates that close.

[Captain Deathbeard]

there is no in between. 1 is too low, 2 is too high.
I have set it to 2 and it actually seems alright. It will be available in the next construction set, under global settings-> "max num attack slots"