What is the best method and weapon to train dexterity?

[EricTheEpic]

Says it right on the tin. Currently using a wakizashi and wear only armor with bonuses or no effect, I.E. the wooden sandals. I've heard wearing stuff that gives you a disadvantage trains you faster, though I'd kinda like a thourough explaination of the dexterity training system.

[Shidan]

You gain Dexterity XP every time you hit someone with a weapon. The amount depends on how heavy the weapon is. So lighter weapons give more, while heavier weapons can give practically none. And also your current Dexterity level.

Armour and weapon damage only indirectly affect the XP rate. Armour may alter the combat speed, which means it could take a longer/shorter amount of time to get the same number of hits in. While a higher weapon damage will KO your opponent faster, meaning fewer hits.

So the method I would suggest would be to focus fighting enemies with either high hitpoints (like a leviathan), or some quality heavy armour (High ranked Paladins and Samurai). And also use a very low damage weapon that weighs 1 kg, like a rusted junk staff.

You can also kidnap people to use a training dummies. Suit them up in good gear and release them to fight you. Once you beat them, you patch them up and stick them back in a cage. When they're healed you can do it all over again. But be careful, prisoners are known to sometimes vanish into thin air. Taking anything you put on them with them. So use with caution.

[EricTheEpic]

Alright, thanks. Now that I think about, getting a crap light weapon makes sense. I've had a kinda crap light weapon this whole time, the wakizashi, though I've gotten proficient in it, so it can actually kill people in a reasonable ammount of time. Guess it's time to pick up the worst, lightest weapon I can find!

[Murdath]

Dress up a high stat npc like the Bugmaster in full masterwork heavy armor and then wack at him with the crappiest light weapon you own.

[Mikkyo]

i*ve tried it with the fcs

made a wanderer-copy

str 30
dex30
tou 30

katana-skill 0
polearm-skill 0

used same lvl-weapon

rusted junk guardless katana
rusted junk staff

nearly the same weight

guardless katana 0,x kg
staff 1 kg

dex gain each hit with kata around 7 or 8%
dex gain each hit with staff 1%

so, whats exactly the definition of light weapon and does all gain the same dex-xp?

or are we all damned to play with a katana to gain dex?

it would be nice to play from beginning as unarmed/staff monk.but its definitely far easier to get dex with a blade.

[Shidan]

Interesting... I'll have to run some tests myself tomorrow.

[Shidan]

Well, i ran the tests. Some interesting results.

First off. Weight nor class have anything to do with dexterity training, at least directly. A lighter weapon will hit people more often, giving more xp over time. But it won't affect the xp per hit.

The actual factor for the xp per hit is damage types. Far as I can tell, it depends on the proportion of cut damage on the weapon. So if the weapon only has cut damage like a katana, you gain the full amount of possible xp yield per hit. While if you use a weapon that is only half cut damage, your xp per hit is cut in half as well. This pattern continues all the way to 0 cut damage giving no xp. It's entirely proportional.

This is however NOT true for strength training via combat. For it, weight is what determines xp per hit. The higher the better, but ideally 20kg or higher over your strength level for maximum xp per hit. And there are penalties if you are encumbered at all. So you want to be "weightless" as well.

This actually makes the staff all but useless for training both dexterity and strength. Because it has almost no cut damage, and is very lightweight. While the katana weapons reign supreme when it comes to dexterity training, thanks to having no blunt damage.

[uroyoan]

Well, i ran the tests. Some interesting results.

First off. Weight nor class have anything to do with dexterity training, at least directly. A lighter weapon will hit people more often, giving more xp over time. But it won't affect the xp per hit.

The actual factor for the xp per hit is damage types. Far as I can tell, it depends on the proportion of cut damage on the weapon. So if the weapon only has cut damage like a katana, you gain the full amount of possible xp yield per hit. While if you use a weapon that is only half cut damage, your xp per hit is cut in half as well. This pattern continues all the way to 0 cut damage giving no xp. It's entirely proportional.

This is however NOT true for strength training via combat. For it, weight is what determines xp per hit. The higher the better, but ideally 20kg or higher over your strength level for maximum xp per hit. And there are penalties if you are encumbered at all. So you want to be "weightless" as well.

This actually makes the staff all but useless for training both dexterity and strength. Because it has almost no cut damage, and is very lightweight. While the katana weapons reign supreme when it comes to dexterity training, thanks to having no blunt damage.

Shidan, I have a question, Is it per hit or cut dammage? example, I have a rusted junk katana, and a edge 1 katana, will I gain more experience with the edge 1 katana because it has more cut dammage or with the rusted junk katana because it deals less damage allowing me to hit more on the same enemy?

[Shidan]

Per hit. Amount of damage is irrelevant. So in your case the rusted junk one is better so you can hit more times.

[uroyoan]

Thank you.

[Mattk50]

Well, i ran the tests. Some interesting results.

First off. Weight nor class have anything to do with dexterity training, at least directly. A lighter weapon will hit people more often, giving more xp over time. But it won't affect the xp per hit.

The actual factor for the xp per hit is damage types. Far as I can tell, it depends on the proportion of cut damage on the weapon. So if the weapon only has cut damage like a katana, you gain the full amount of possible xp yield per hit. While if you use a weapon that is only half cut damage, your xp per hit is cut in half as well. This pattern continues all the way to 0 cut damage giving no xp. It's entirely proportional.

This is however NOT true for strength training via combat. For it, weight is what determines xp per hit. The higher the better, but ideally 20kg or higher over your strength level for maximum xp per hit. And there are penalties if you are encumbered at all. So you want to be "weightless" as well.

This actually makes the staff all but useless for training both dexterity and strength. Because it has almost no cut damage, and is very lightweight. While the katana weapons reign supreme when it comes to dexterity training, thanks to having no blunt damage.

i wonder how intentional this is.

[Aereto]

Well, i ran the tests. Some interesting results.

First off. Weight nor class have anything to do with dexterity training, at least directly. A lighter weapon will hit people more often, giving more xp over time. But it won't affect the xp per hit.

The actual factor for the xp per hit is damage types. Far as I can tell, it depends on the proportion of cut damage on the weapon. So if the weapon only has cut damage like a katana, you gain the full amount of possible xp yield per hit. While if you use a weapon that is only half cut damage, your xp per hit is cut in half as well. This pattern continues all the way to 0 cut damage giving no xp. It's entirely proportional.

This is however NOT true for strength training via combat. For it, weight is what determines xp per hit. The higher the better, but ideally 20kg or higher over your strength level for maximum xp per hit. And there are penalties if you are encumbered at all. So you want to be "weightless" as well.

This actually makes the staff all but useless for training both dexterity and strength. Because it has almost no cut damage, and is very lightweight. While the katana weapons reign supreme when it comes to dexterity training, thanks to having no blunt damage.

I find that interesting, though I managed to have a Skeleton with Dexterity of 50 just from Martial Arts+Dodge training by beating up a caged Fogman, Fog Heavy, and then Broken Skeleton given only a refitted Jitte to whack him with. I like the progress from an Iron Hand to Karate Bot capable of roundhouse kicks, especially coming from a Skeleton who get 99 stealth from being on the run almost all the time until a turret was built. Though I have not given significant strength training even when given a Plank or get weighed down in ore.

[Shidan]

Oh yeah, I forgot to update over here too. After this test I ran one more on unarmed. It produces more xp per hit than the Katana (though only slightly), and it has a significantly increased hit rate. This makes it the undisputed king for Dexterity xp training.

[Aereto]

Oh yeah, I forgot to update over here too. After this test I ran one more on unarmed. It produces more xp per hit than the Katana (though only slightly), and it has a significantly increased hit rate. This makes it the undisputed king for Dexterity xp training.

Considering that hand-to-hand is a very risky thing to do in a world where swords and clubs reign, it is rare for a wanderer to go monk and train their body before going to the art of the sword.

The hit rate would increase at 25 level increments by increasing the amount of attack animations available. I'd recommend 50+ for effective use in the field with equal dodge level and toughness to match.

I'd recommend capturing appropriate enemy combat levels in easily isolating base designs that prevent escape (except bugs and disappearances) and gearing in Jitte and optional armor. And probably play some music since wearing martial arts clothes gives them a fighting chance... in training before being out in the wastes.

Despite the dodge xp penalty and need for expensive repair kits, Skeletons make good martial enforcers due to lack of armor diversity (everyone else gets hats, but not bots), 200 part hp, and being metal. How I got enough money to buy a kit early was from collecting Fog Prince heads and katana smithing, but that's another story.

[philthymcnasty]

Per hit. Amount of damage is irrelevant. So in your case the rusted junk one is better so you can hit more times.

This would mean that the nodachi would be better for training than any other weapon? It hits multiple people at once and is fairly light.

In the past i used the wakashai to train dex, and it seemed to do a good quick job. It also strikes a million times.

[swillo]

I don't know about dex weapons, but the best way to train run speed is to pick the lock on your cannibal cell and then start running to the nearest town sheading weight as you go with 30+red and green eating machines on your tail.

Ran from deadcat to the fishing village before I ran into a group of tech hunters and hired them as body guards. slapped 2k in their hands and then started off running again.
still got all my fingers and toes.

[Boudicca]

This has all been great info! A good deal of my crews end up straight-up thieves training with katana or wakizashi. I've finally hit a point where 4 skeletons and 2 humans are training hand-to-hand. Like someone mentioned above my guys all have high stealth due to being in constant terror and on the run from Holy Nation for a good deal of their early lives.

LOL on the "running training"... I've got a few sprinters now that can outrun anything in existence.

[philthymcnasty]

I don't know about dex weapons, but the best way to train run speed is to pick the lock on your cannibal cell and then start running to the nearest town sheading weight as you go with 30+red and green eating machines on your tail.

Ran from deadcat to the fishing village before I ran into a group of tech hunters and hired them as body guards. slapped 2k in their hands and then started off running again.
still got all my fingers and toes.

You should work on your stealth and assassination.

I train assassination by knocking out dust bandits and stealing their armor and swords. I then sell them in the town for money.

So early in game you get a great start, and you can get your assassination up to 50 real fast. It also levels up stealth like crazy.

[EricTheEpic]

I made the original post before I went on a bit of a Kenshi hiatus. I'm glad it spawned a thread which seemed to answer a lot of questions for everyone.

On the actual content of this thread, I find the conclusion interesting. I almost didn't expect martial arts to be the best, though I'm glad that's the case since I recently switched over to it. I almost want to go back to slavery for a while just to beat the guards up for fun... But that's beside the point. Props to Mikkyo and Shidan for researching it.

[philthymcnasty]

I made the original post before I went on a bit of a Kenshi hiatus. I'm glad it spawned a thread which seemed to answer a lot of questions for everyone.

On the actual content of this thread, I find the conclusion interesting. I almost didn't expect martial arts to be the best, though I'm glad that's the case since I recently switched over to it. I almost want to go back to slavery for a while just to beat the guards up for fun... But that's beside the point. Props to Mikkyo and Shidan for researching it.

It gets better.

A martial artist with high toughness and strength deals more damage with their hands then they would with a heavy club, but FAST.

You become one punch man.