[0.98.8] Stealth kill doesn't work.

[Bookhorse]

Hello. What the title says.

[Kwikwilyaqa]

Hello. What the title says.

Put [0.0.0 - 0.98.8].

It never "worked" (its not in game yet).

[Bookhorse]

Derp. Someone told me that I can use it to get rid of enemies crawling around. Ah well...

[Ocram]

They probably meant stealth knockout.

[Sol Lignum]

I think it's "Stealth KO" when person is conscious, and "Stealth Kill" when they're not. I'm guessing it's because, logically, you can't KO someone who's already unconscious... But the kill part never worked, nevertheless

[Bookhorse]

No, they didn't mean stealth KO. The question was, how can I get rid of bunch of enemies that lay inside my base pretending dead. I couldn't attack them, only stealth KO and then supposedly stealth kill. Why isn't it in the game still anyway? O_o

[Ocram]

I would go with overpowered. There are no simple conditions that could limit you on how and when to use it, be stealth, decimate kenshi pop. Knockout works the same but at least they have a chance to get up and get back at you (ideally). Just a wild guess tho, don't take my words for it.

[Hatsune_Neko]

Stealth kill has never been added. You only have the knockout option.

And for balance reasons it looks very unlikely to be added.

[Bookhorse]

But there's a button for it! :3 Why not change it to "execute" or something then? That's fairly obvious that I can do whatever with an unconscious enemy. Also, stealth kill would be very much in tone with Kenshi. Balance aside. I mean, It can be balanced. For example, if the enemy is much stronger than you, then regardless of your skill, he might put up a fight or raise the alarm.

[Sol Lignum]

Yeah, yeah, but then, even though Kenshi is harsh and unforgiving and yada-yada, when you going down, there's always hope for rescue, for PCs and NPCs alike. So it can't be taken too far.

[Hatsune_Neko]

Kenshi is about survival in a rough and tumble way. You and the npc get many chances to survive. You trive on the challange to make you stronger.

There are many things in the game that can kill you. And very few that can do so in one or two hits. But you have option to try or not.

A kill option removes that. The game gives you plenty of chances to avoid a gruesome fate. A kill command gives none.
There is no rescue. No options. Dead is dead. In my eye it would unbalance the game. The player would have to be heavily restricted so they dont just go on a murder spree and the option to make sure it cant be exploited.

Over all it doesn't fit in a game about survival and overcome being beaten untill you rise to greatness.

If you want to kill. Use a mod or up the chance of death or weapons damage or both or all three.
Also high end weapons give you better chances.

Edit:
Moved topic to general as its not a bug and so people can discuss it.

[Ocram]

It's not as simple as weaker or stronger than... I see room for stealth kill, ko is not much different, but something should be adapted.
Stealth kill and ko chance could use a cap, like lockpick does, 90-95% at max skill.
Characters could use multiple stats to resist stealth attacks, so that they are not unbalanced in just one stat (toughness for ko). A formula of thougness with dodge and dexterity, maybe stealth and assassination too. A different stat for the resist might be easier tho.
Npcs should grow ears, field of view is not enough to play on stealth things, they should get more aware of their immediate sorroundings.
AI could be improved to accomodate stealth situations: npcs acting more natural and realistic like turning heads (not only to look at you (even if they don't see you, that's creepy xd)), guard from node to node, watch/look at node or poi, have a weakness moment (cig, piss, .... whatever), if in a sensible zone and being spotted they could intimidate you to not sneak around, follow you and attack you at some point (something like this already planned?)
Environment should be revised to better suit stealth, buildings and town design could(not) help, paired with the above you can have zones where is easy, difficult or just impossible. Wildness no idea atm.
^ all this is pretty much independent from stealth kill, ko is just as op to me. It's even worse cause you get to loot without the risk of losing an important npc, now that I think of it.
Assassination could only be performed with particular weapons. No big guns is the general idea, may be limited to wakizashi/katanas only. And the option to assassinate could unlock at a certain assassination stat.
-
Execution as already said in another topic (that I can't remember, oldness, I will add something here) could be limited to playing dead, that renders the character unconscious instead of killing him, would not be an execution per say, more like the "finishing stab" that translated to kenshi would be "stab to unconsciousness".
Fairly easy to implement, and gets rid of characters being stuck for a long time in playing dead with no fate and purpose. But it should also affect the player, either in form of npcs being smart (chance of a dialog from smart npc?) and stabbing corpses to make sure they are not playing dead, or actually being able to detect playing dead characters. Or both.

Brain hurts, kisses nitenite.

[swillo]

The whole point of "playing dead" is for your benefit not the NPCs. It's so when you get your butt kicked you can lay there and let the kickers walk away while you bandage your wounds and hide. Otherwise you would never live past your first butt kicking. They would just stand around and keep beating on you until you were dead. Happened all the time before playing dead was added.

If you want to get rid of "playing dead" NPCs in your base you can now just pick them up and carry them outside and leave them. They will crawl away or die eventually.

[Ocram]

I don't want benefits, it's freakin Kenshi! xd
I know that it's to give you another coin, I'm not saying it should be removed, it's cool pcs play dead and even cooler npcs now can too. I'm saying I don't like the indefinite invincibility time and it could use some interaction to it.
Even not that brutal, maybe that's just me being sadic and masochist, but I very rarely lose a pc later in the game even if the entire squad gets wiped, I see the point of not losing a well trained character that you spent time on, I still think the world should be more cruel toward pcs and npcs should be a little smarter.

[Laurient]

perhaps after a certain amount of time, Npc could kidnap or loot (all stuff not only food) playing dead characters .

[Sol Lignum]

I'd say the current problem is not that NPCs are playing dead, it's that PCs are aggroing at them and causing some ruckus. I think it's been a feature for quite a while, but was only noticed when some other bug broke through it.

[Ocram]

More like many things came together, and coincidences make ideas. I never liked being invincible in play dead time, then npcs were invicible, there's also a stealth kill button that appear sometimes, someone asked for execute here and there. Why not try to make the best out of it (not saying I'm giving the best ideas, I'm trying xd)

Ofcourse that's a problem and while at it I would suggest to not forget the pointer turning red on those npc, you should only be able to detect them by selecting them, not before.

[EDIT] ^ kinda pointless since there's a magnifier on who is not playing dead.

[swillo]

In 98.9,
I don't know about you but I'm able to pickup and move a playing dead characters. I can also loot them though they tend to scream "THIEF" and catch me stealing. Now if they are causing too much trouble I pick them up and take them far from the gate and drop them. When they wake up they will take off running or run back at my gates and get finished off either is good.

[Sol Lignum]

It is true, they are pickable, which is alright, but they still shouldn't cause any havok on your base. Do they still do that, by the way?

[swillo]

Not in mine.
They are only targeted if they change their status. which they do if you move them.
They become unconscious for a few seconds when you put them down and then either start playing dead again or take on some other status.