This game is glorifying a japan that never existed

[overtyped]

I always wondered why this games weapons were so strange, for example when i saw a katana in the game, i assumed it would be one of the lowest tiers of weapons, yet in this game it's the best.

Historically they were terrible in comparison to what the europeons used at the time. Yes there were some japanese swords almost on par with average europeon weapons, but only the super rich could afford a sword like that. Most are just poor quality steel.

WEAPONS AND ARMOR The reason their swords were so glorified, is because only the rich samurai could afford it. So it became a status symbol. (Sorry weaboo's..)
With poor smelting methods and a requirement of massive labor for little metal, don't even think about getting good steel armor unless you are mega rich.

If a japanese samurai were to try to pierce a europeon steel plate, not only would he not cut through, but the small hole he created with his sword, ( if he is lucky enough to pierce it, which i highly doubt) would cause his weapon to be stuck, thus disarming him.(the same as every other sword) Which is a bit different from anime im afraid.

SHIELDS: There is also a lack of shields in the game, which i'm told the reason for that is the author has a romantic infatuation with japan, but i assume he thinks shields were never used for samurai. Let me educate you.

In japans history foot soldiers used shields and spears. The reason there was a period of less wide use of shields is the war with Emishi who were primarily cavalry, who used hit and run tactics, so they swapped over to mostly horse archers to compete, and lo and behold, they had a sword or short spear for a sidearm, just like every other type of horse archery in history.

You can't use a bow without two hands, so shields became redundant for horse archers which most samurai were.

In much of europe, horse archers were not used as much and shooting a bow from a horse has far less power. (It worked good in japan, due to their armor being of such bad quality and very very hard to make), so for europe with their good armor and weapons and stirrups, shields on horsemen just made sense, and due to horseman being almost all knights, they get the stigma of using shields, while their counterparts the japanese samurai who were mostly horse archers got the stigma of not.

What's even sadder though, isn't the japanese samurai supposed to be the super honorable type that rush into battle like on animes? Yet they shoot from safety with a bow, it's the europeon Knights who actually charge in on their horses, weird right?

Cavalry: The reason the cavalry liked to stay the hell away from close combat, was due to the lack of a stirrup. Yes, that's right, the japanese weren't wise enough to invent stirrups like the europeons.

A horseman without a stirrup trying to attack with his spear, is a usually a sad sad sight. With stirrups and decent metal armor, they most likely they would have followed exactly the same line as the europeons, and have heavy cavalry, which the japanese did not.


Samurai using no shields or bow, only sword or spear As for the samurai who became ronin, due to a lesser need of them, yes they did use just a short spear or sword for personal safety, but you are forgetting that EVERY SINGLE civilization does the same.

If you are a civilian not going to war, carrying around a shield everywhere is absolute madness.
Europeon civilians did not use shields at all. They carried a sword or a dagger for a sidearm. So where is this only the honorable japanese don't use shields bullcrap?

It's historically nonsense.


Proposition So, I am proposing nerfing katana to their rightful place as a subpar sidearm. Remove the double attack, and reduce damage. Please don't delude yourself any longer with the animes lol.

[Sol Lignum]

I can understand your frustration to a degree. But, i think you're missing the point here.

First and foremost, Kenshi is fiction. And since it's not hystorically accurate, any such points are invalid. The only ties it has to real history are having a form of vague references to weapons, names and parts of japanese culture.

Katana isn't bad by itself, putting aside the hystorical limitations of a nation, it's just slightly-odd shaped sabre in the end. I'd bet money on that: if you'd forge a katana and any other comparable sabre, using the exact same technology, and put them to a test, they'll show very similar results. Which is what we have in Kenshi: same technology, diffirent shapes and forms with their ups and downs each.

Shields and spears i'd like to see myself, along with some short cuirases and whatnot. Yet again, it's swordpunk, why use shield if you can get a FALLING FREAKING SUN and look ridiculously badass? Kenshi is happening on a rather weird planet.

[lucidmadness]

yes, doing 0 damage with a tier 5 katana to masterwork armor is overpowered compared to my 200 from a fragment axe. With lifter arms my str makes the attack speed max, so if you are seriously under the impression that a katana is the best weapon you are seriously mistaken.

[bk3000]

Putting aside that I don't really think this post is 100% accurate anyhow and how much my head was screaming "OMG who cares" most the way through... very little if any of it has jack squat to do with gameplay. This is the least useful "feature suggestion" I've ever seen.

And I really have no idea where that chip on your shoulder came from. Damaged European pride? Holy heck get over it. Repeat after me... this is a game. This is a game. This is a game.

[overtyped]

Putting aside that I don't really think this post is 100% accurate anyhow and how much my head was screaming "OMG who cares" most the way through... very little if any of it has jack squat to do with gameplay. This is the least useful "feature suggestion" I've ever seen.

And I really have no idea where that chip on your shoulder came from. Damaged European pride? Holy heck get over it. Repeat after me... this is a game. This is a game. This is a game.

im canadian though, and I was doing a rather fair analysis.

[Sazin]

Yeah I don't like the world's hype about katanas either, but about reality... Well, wa are most likely playing a guy that lives on a MOON.
Great sky btw.

[bargian]

I've read ur analysis with intrest i rly like those historical things

But as others here said: kenshi is a game. Maybe with some aspect its based on japanes culture. But im pretty sure japan didnt have any Shek's, drons or skeletons and gigantic shipwrecks or other structurs pointing to the sky

[TerrorofKenshi]

You know i used to think the same like you when i first saw this game thinking that it was stupid weaboo trash. But after playing the demo for a bit and seeing people playing it on YouTube I decided that it was way more than that. It never claimed to be historicaly accurate at all in fact it shares more with a fantasy/post-apocalyptic sci-fi world. In the end i Always settled with either a sabre or a polearm and with mods like AWP on steam it expanded it's range of weapons even more. It has Guts' sword for god's sake!

Though i do wish they would add more heavy armors and helmets that don't look like they were taken from a scrapheap. I mean they literally use benches made according to the specifications of the ancients and they can't even make a pristine looking bit of armor? Perhaps they could make some graphical varieties of the existing ones to resemble their crafting quality like they did with the weapons.

Yeah sure it's weapons can be a bit ridiculous somethimes but that is only because the creator made it that way. As long as they don't say that this is supposed to be historically accurate i really don't mind. But if they did i would stand in the same boat as you do.

Btw more than half your post has nothing to do with ideas or features at all and the creator has many times said he wouldn't add shields so don't keep your hopes up for that. If you really want shields in the game try using a mod like the one i mentioned. He added those (though i do wish he didn't put them in the shirt slot though)

[Vandala]

Even if the developer wanted them, would it be reasonable for shields to be included anyway? It's probably way to much work animation wise to get something like this in the game for such little gain. The saber weapon class are kinda the shields of the game anyway, so it's not like we are lacking defensive options.

I would like there to be shields, but I'm not sure we even need them.

Besides, most of the weapons in the game are sort of two-handed, most won't work with a shield so we'd need a whole new set of weapons that could be used with a shield. It's just a mess to get this done, and for what?

The only real reason it would be interesting to see shields in game is if we would get to use combat formations, like shield walls, that would dramatically change how your characters fight. Now that's something I would like to see in the game, proper formation fighting instead of this clusterfuck of everybody just piling on into a giant mess. XD

[Hatsune_Neko]

its only a Japanese based theme. its not of earth or even this reality.

[TerrorofKenshi]

Even if the developer wanted them, would it be reasonable for shields to be included anyway? It's probably way to much work animation wise to get something like this in the game for such little gain. The saber weapon class are kinda the shields of the game anyway, so it's not like we are lacking defensive options.

I would like there to be shields, but I'm not sure we even need them.

Besides, most of the weapons in the game are sort of two-handed, most won't work with a shield so we'd need a whole new set of weapons that could be used with a shield. It's just a mess to get this done, and for what?

The only real reason it would be interesting to see shields in game is if we would get to use combat formations, like shield walls, that would dramatically change how your characters fight. Now that's something I would like to see in the game, proper formation fighting instead of this clusterfuck of everybody just piling on into a giant mess. XD

Tbh the "not having shields"-part only made sense BEFORE they implemented crossbows. Now with those in we really do need something to protect us against those arrows. Maybe instead of shields we could use dodge or weapon defense to deflect them instead? (someone suggested this in the feature thread already go chech out his ideas if you want ot know more about it) But that would negate the reason why you have a crossbow in the first place...hmmm...

Also there are already 3 "formations" in the game; random, military and caravan. The first on does...well...do i really need to expplain that one lol. The second one basically makes your squad run around like the samurai guys meaning that they will adjust their speed to that of the person with the fastest running skill. The last one makes you run like those caravan dudes and also adjusts their speed to the slowest guy in tht squad.

[Vandala]

Tbh the "not having shields"-part only made sense BEFORE they implemented crossbows. Now with those in we really do need something to protect us against those arrows. Maybe instead of shields we could use dodge or weapon defense to deflect them instead? (someone suggested this in the feature thread already go chech out his ideas if you want ot know more about it) But that would negate the reason why you have a crossbow in the first place...hmmm...

I don't think you really "need" them, we have heavy armor that can deal with ranged damage, I hear it's even pretty OP.

I don't really know myself, ranged damage against the player is something I almost never experience. Even if it would be a problem, it need not be solved by having a shield, you can just as easily solve it by some new piece of armor that offers better protection against arrows somehow.

I know that realistically it would make sense to just have a shield, but in terms of developing a game it's just extra work that can be solved easier without having to introduce whole new systems, UI changes, and extra animation work.

[TerrorofKenshi]

Tbh the "not having shields"-part only made sense BEFORE they implemented crossbows. Now with those in we really do need something to protect us against those arrows. Maybe instead of shields we could use dodge or weapon defense to deflect them instead? (someone suggested this in the feature thread already go chech out his ideas if you want ot know more about it) But that would negate the reason why you have a crossbow in the first place...hmmm...

I don't think you really "need" them, we have heavy armor that can deal with ranged damage, I hear it's even pretty OP.

I don't really know myself, ranged damage against the player is something I almost never experience. Even if it would be a problem, it need not be solved by having a shield, you can just as easily solve it by some new piece of armor that offers better protection against arrows somehow.

I know that realistically it would make sense to just have a shield, but in terms of developing a game it's just extra work that can be solved easier without having to introduce whole new systems, UI changes, and extra animation work.

Yeah, but it could be solved even easier. If the creators add in support for extra animations than the modders themselves can fit this role. I don't know if you have taken a look at steam lately but there are already people that actually made new animations to be used for shields. Right now they replace existing ones but if the creators do add more animations slots for extra stuff well maybe it's possible.

[Vandala]

Also there are already 3 "formations" in the game; random, military and caravan. The first on does...well...do i really need to expplain that one lol. The second one basically makes your squad run around like the samurai guys meaning that they will adjust their speed to that of the person with the fastest running skill. The last one makes you run like those caravan dudes and also adjusts their speed to the slowest guy in tht squad.

Those are not combat formations, those are just walking formations. The characters do not stay in formation when fighting, that's the important part.

Having proper combat formations could add some amount of control to how combat works, which is something that I find to be almost entirely lacking at the moment.

[Vandala]

Yeah, but it could be solved even easier. If the creators add in support for extra animations than the modders themselves can fit this role. I don't know if you have taken a look at steam lately but there are already people that actually made new animations to be used for shields. Right now they replace existing ones but if the creators do add more animations slots for extra stuff well maybe it's possible.

It's never that easy, I'm not sure how to put this into the right words but it has to do with ownership, what the developer intents the game to be, having to maintain what other people add on to it, etc. It can be a whole mess of trouble you have to keep in mind.

[ronvandorp]

The Japanese katana from history had to be amazing, how else would they cut through all those giant mechs roaming around? #history #fact

[TerrorofKenshi]

Yeah, but it could be solved even easier. If the creators add in support for extra animations than the modders themselves can fit this role. I don't know if you have taken a look at steam lately but there are already people that actually made new animations to be used for shields. Right now they replace existing ones but if the creators do add more animations slots for extra stuff well maybe it's possible.

It's never that easy, I'm not sure how to put this into the right words but it has to do with ownership, what the developer intents the game to be, having to maintain what other people add on to it, etc. It can be a whole mess of trouble you have to keep in mind.

Ah, yes. I forgot that the law likes to keep stuff difficult. My bad.

[Comrade]

All in all, japan was essentially like a more retarded version of medieval europe.

So the mod's are just overlooking this?

@Overtyped, you're abrasive tone and general euro-centric attitude are extremely off-putting. I dunno why the hell you are so triggered, but it's a game. Calm down.

[overtyped]

All in all, japan was essentially like a more retarded version of medieval europe.

So the mod's are just overlooking this?

@Overtyped, you're abrasive tone and general euro-centric attitude are extremely off-putting. I dunno why the hell you are so triggered, but it's a game. Calm down.

No, i was simply being accurate, and as i've said i'm canadian, born and raised. If you feel I was favoring europe, i wasn't.

[Sol Lignum]

So the mod's are just overlooking this?

Guess this doesn't count as a direct insult, and most users here, mods included, are tolerant to moderately harsh language, so i guess it was completely fine. Anyway, i smell a strong note of trolling in this topic, and suggest we put it to rest for good