Aging

[Captain Deathbeard]

More opinions needed. I refuse to have NPCs and creatures "re-spawn" all over the place for no reason, I want that feeling that if you kill a vicious monster, that's one less monster in the world, and if you see a village get slaughtered, then it feels like a genuine loss of irreplaceable characters that will take time to heal.

In the game there will be children, babies and old people. I would like it so that eventually children grow up and become adults, partly because its cool, but mainly because its a way of replenishing the populations (what with all the killing and all). Also it means you could rescue children, start an orphanage, and shamelessly get recruits when they grow up.

But what I don't like is that then means all your characters would grow old and die. One of my core beliefs is that you should never take anything away from the player, so dying of old age is not an option.

So here are the possibilities:

1 - Adult player characters don't age. Hope player doesn't notice.
2 - Adult player characters age, and get old, but then stay old and never die. Hope player doesn't notice.
3 - Characters age, but there is some kind of advanced researchable medical technology that gives eternal life or youth (until you get stabbed).

[Suta]

I think there should be a fourth option.

If the character is alone, he ages very very slowly.
If the character is in a large party, he ages normally, and dies. By the time he dies, there should be another character in the party of equal or superior strength to what your characters was. Sure it's inconsistant.

Heres another opinon that you may dislike. If your character has a child, when you die, you will be switched to your characters child. As he ages, his stats will slowly form to what yours used to be, sorta genetics, see. So if your character has, for example, 100 swordsmanship when he reaches the age of 100, then dies. The child will have 50 Swordsmanship when he reaches 50 years old. 75 at 75. Thats without training, so he can train that stat and have double what he had by the time he dies.

I'm just glad the option of killing children will be there, it's one of those things in games that no one ever does. Probably because it's cruel and terrible. (Why Fable and Fallout 3 made me upset, theres these children that can't die.)

[wazupwolf]

ya i know that p'd me off one kid made me so mad i blew up megaton just to know he died , and i think maybe add something were ur guy is born with a special aging thing so he cant age to far or enough to die or untill the player wants it to stop, i know it sucks just trying to spark a better idea

[Windexglow]

Perhaps natural selection. Babies are born, they grow into men/women, they get old, than they die.

While the time of pregnancy is the same for all factions, the speed of life does not.

One faction may have a rather fast growth span - babies grow into children much faster, and eventually into men. The side effect is the men also get older faster, and will die younger because of it.

Another faction may have the opposite effect - age slower, but live longer.


But we still need to make it rarer for someone to die in their sleep. Assassinations, battle, accidents, sickness, diseases would all attribute to this. Come back to a village you poured your heart into to find little Billy got too close to a rattle snake a week ago. Damn, you were just caring a treatment for that too.

The player should age just like every other person (based upon where he was borne, his activities, ect). The entire concept of this game (as far as I know) is squad based, not hero + hero support. While players are VERY likely to have one particular person they like the most, that person will eventually pass away.

[Captain Deathbeard]

You won't be able to kill children (I don't think I could get away with it), BUT everybody else can. So some evil bandits could wipe out a village and kill all the women and children in front of you, so you still get to see some child-guts, but if you order your characters to kill a child, they will refuse. And a child won't count as a hostile unit anyway.


Maybe for the aging thing I will make it an option:, separate for player and non-player characters: normal, slow, off.

The inheritance idea I already have for something like an iron man mode, when your last character dies, instead of game over you can create a new character as a young relative who inherits all your stuff, and continue playing in that world. Skills would not be inherited.

[RustKnight]

I think genetics is a really great idea. I didn't see any other game (in my experience) that has this, getting the atributes of his father and mother, thou the pourpuse of this game is getting better, and turning tides against larger enemy groups (as i see it) i do not want to beat my head against a wall trying to find a perfect wife for my genetics to be super for the next character.

And as for the potion of life, i say it sucks... firstly i don't even know in what kind of universe we are into, nor what technology we are able to use, i would suggest keeping it as close to realism as possible, do not mix futureistic with fantasy/medieval.

Also if you WOULD make a potion for slower aging/dead, it would be pretty hard to find, thus making a goal in the gamers head that he needs to use all his time and resource to find that potion; which i don't think you want. (as far as i can see it you are trying to let the player make his own goals)

[Captain Deathbeard]

Also if you WOULD make a potion for slower aging/dead, it would be pretty hard to find, thus making a goal in the gamers head that he needs to use all his time and resource to find that potion; which i don't think you want. (as far as i can see it you are trying to let the player make his own goals)

Very very good point.

[RustKnight]

Meh, i just took a look in history, mainly sims history where developers wanted the same thing: introduce the player in a sandbox, and let him do whatever he wants, but as with the forthcoming of Sims 2, goals pretty much changed from making a living, and a family, to a non stop booring race of getting those stupid points to buy that little damn elixir that makes you younger, thus diverting the whole pourpose of the game.

[Suta]

I think Windexglow hs got it, since it's squad based everyone dies.

I can't kill children??? Damn... Well can I capture rattle snakes to throw at them, so I can get them sick and die?

But on that point, when you command a person to do something, will he be told by a leader character, or just know that he has to do this thing because the player told him to?

Say I told them to kill a person (i'll let off on the child murdering for now), if it's the player telling him to kill someone, would his moral code get in the way of his own decision which was made by the player?

If it's a commander telling him to do something, then the person being ordered to kill a person might be conflicted, and not do it.

Back onto murdering children... Wouldn't that take away from the possibilities? Making players unable to do what other bandits can do?
Can I at least take them prisoner and force them to join my army?

[wazupwolf]

id really like to see child/baby killing really if im gonna be some evil dude in this game im gonna need a little help with that rep, speaking of reps will ur chracter be able to have one?

[RustKnight]

Poor ol' Chris. Keep in mind you must have a well drawn map of YOUR objectives that you must acomplish, just by picking up some ideas from us on the road is just a bonus. I think you have a tendency to please people and not disappoint them. Don't. Go accordingly with your thoughts and ideas, and if they don't like it, shove it you know where...

I am not making reference to any who posted in this topic; it's just a general notice.

[Windexglow]

Poor ol' Chris. Keep in mind you must have a well drawn map of YOUR objectives that you must acomplish, just by picking up some ideas from us on the road is just a bonus. I think you have a tendency to please people and not disappoint them. Don't. Go accordingly with your thoughts and ideas, and if they don't like it, shove it you know where...

I am not making reference to any who posted in this topic; it's just a general notice.

Unlike major companies, this game doesn't have a set release date. It has no stock to keep high. It's workers do not get paid. It has a very, very little cost footprint.

[Suta]

And it's subject to intelligent peer-pressure.
Or is that an oxymoron.
Okay, I realise now I probably wouldn't kill children, but would kidnap them and raise them into killing machines, and bring woman to make my army larger with babies.

And with aging, maybe there could be a speed up button? I noticed how you wanted fallout 2 style traveling, what about just speeding things up, say you don't want to watch an entire battle, or watch your men build a house. (hmm, that could be interesting...) could you speed up the game for a moment using a button? I'm thinking sims style.

[RustKnight]

A very good example for Chris to follow would be Toady from bay 12, basicly they both want the same thing:

-realistic combat
-a random generated world with random but logical events
-realistic medical system
-let the player do whatever he wants to

Toady almost acomplished his goals but i guess Chris has some more work to it. Dwarf Fortress is being developed similary as Kenshi: no workers, no salary, no stocks, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have some major goals as guidelines.

You could get his first podcast if you want (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/call.html) and see how he interacts with his fans, and how he answers their questions, and his way of thinking. Plus as we see dwarf fortress is in alpha stage, still toady released it so he can get a lot more help from gamers that report bugs, and blend with the game, whereas from this point they can say what should be changed more, in the game or what is more fitting, third benefit being a popular forum and more news of the game being spread.

I am not saying he is an uber god, but i am saying his a person worth learning from.

[Captain Deathbeard]

Keep in mind you must have a well drawn map of YOUR objectives that you must acomplish, just by picking up some ideas from us on the road is just a bonus.

Don't worry I do, I'm just getting people excited and picking up the odd new idea or viewpoint. 90% of what you guys say I already have planned.


Yes there will be a reputation system, and also an individual moral compass for each character. They will only refuse player orders if something very major goes against their morals, or if they are just cowards (which will only happen at very low level).
Also due to the AI, they may at times override player orders by choosing to do something extremely important first, like rescuing their best friend, but again this is only in extreme cases.

Yes you can speed the game up too, but hopefully there will be enough going on that you can't leave it sped up for very long.

You can force people, children, slaves to join your army, but they will escape or murder you in your sleep now and then. They are not very trustworthy, and your characters will turn evil.
On the other hand if you rescue then and they join you willingly, they will be very loyal, although they will take a lot of training. Children won't join you willingly, but they likely will if you look after them and wait for them to grow up.

If I do allow child killing, it will be for the free publicity.

[RustKnight]

Hmm, why is free will of the npc only in extreme cases?

I say it should happen when it's needed, and reasonable, don't make cool things like this a rarity.

[wazupwolf]

Yes there will be a reputation system

sweet im gonna be the ownage bad guy

[Captain Deathbeard]

Hmm, why is free will of the npc only in extreme cases?
I say it should happen when it's needed, and reasonable, don't make cool things like this a rarity.

Not NPC's, obviously Non-Player Characters have nothing but free will. Its Player characters that only do it rarely, because you want full control over your characters, it will be annoying as hell if you keep clicking telling them to do things and they just run off and do what they feel like all the time. You need to be able to be able to give them an order and rely on them.

[RustKnight]

I understand.

[Zephyr8965]

On the subject of aging, I had a bit of a thought. The thing is, life expectancy back in the middle ages was significantly lower than it is in modern times. This is for obvious reasons. However, perhaps the player and his characters (as well as select npc's in the world) could have access to things your average person in town doesn't. Your character could travel the world, getting antidotes and things that people who stay in a single location don't have. There's plenty of reasons why your character and his/her companions could live longer (or in some cases, much, much shorter) lives than the standard npc's that you see living out normal lives in towns. These npc's could simply die at a much younger age than you and your companions.

It would be nice to see some form of genetics when your character does eventually die of age, but I wouldn't give the full abilities of your character to their children. Perhaps for every 20 points you have in a skill when you have the child, they will get +1 in it. (bonuses could even accrue over time until they hit adulthood) This could allow you to actually create a family line that focuses on a few particular things and become legendary at those things. (perhaps legendary blacksmiths, or legendary archers, etc)

Eventually, this could even expand into an entire community of people who all become incredibly good at something as the decades pass.