Slavery?

[nuget102]

ok so I know we will be able to capture people right? and I also know we'll be able to mine, so this got me thinking... maybe, at the chance of being considered a morally bad person among the NPCs (which I hope will be added later on?) we could capture bandits and stuff and use them to mine our resources and stuff? of course I imagine people will be against this idea, so I figure if they don't like forcing people to work you could hire people to work for you... and also if your forcing people to work there could be a chance for them to revolt and attempt to kill the people supervising them as well as trying to kill you...and maybe if you work along side them it will lower the chance of revolt? just an idea...xD

[txfirefighter]

i believe this ha been addressed and, to your liking, i think its going to be implemeted.

there are a lot of i thinks in that sentence but not for sure if the said suggestions will be for sure.

[nuget102]

i believe this ha been addressed and, to your liking, i think its going to be implemeted.

there are a lot of i thinks in that sentence but not for sure if the said suggestions will be for sure.

from what i've found (maybe i'm just not looking hard enough?) we will be able to capture people...but I haven't heard of anyone suggesting putting captured people to work, only selling them for ransom and stuff like that XD so I figured why not ask? :3 it would be pretty cool to be able to build a huge force of slaves....and I just now had the idea of a slave market maybe? :3 where you can like buy and sell slaves? x3

[txfirefighter]

i might be assuming since we will be able to capture. it might have been mentioned just in passing that you can have slaves.... hmmm

and ask away with any question. didnt mean to overstep the question with my answer.

[Captain Deathbeard]

Yeah I want to add slaves. You will be able to buy, capture and use slaves for labour. Also, your own characters can get captured and sold into slavery. Also you could free slaves and be a hero-outlaw.

[killerx243]

Yeah I want to add slaves. You will be able to buy, capture and use slaves for labour. Also, your own characters can get captured and sold into slavery. Also you could free slaves and be a hero-outlaw.

And so I shall now call a character Spartacus just so he can be captured and lead a rebellion.

[nuget102]

Yeah I want to add slaves. You will be able to buy, capture and use slaves for labour. Also, your own characters can get captured and sold into slavery. Also you could free slaves and be a hero-outlaw.

I cant wait o.o an ETA when this will be added? x3 I assume not for a while, or do you plan on adding it after mining? (i'm no programmer, but wouldn't that be easiest so you can fix the bugs of it early on? just kinda guessing there xD) I cant wait... I could so get into slave trading! C: and maybe certain factions will be for slavery while others against it? also, would it be possible to attack slavers and take their slaves as your own slaves as well as the slavers themselves? (I always hated not being able to take prisoners from bandits and stuff on M&B...v.v I hated having to hire them ) and also, if you attack a place that has slaves, do you HAVE to free the slaves? I would like to be able to capture the slaves for my own use...that would be pretty cool...sorry for rambling! xD

[txfirefighter]

haha pretty good ideas there.

i too hope for all those suggestions. being we are seeing only a fraction of the game map and factions we knows. maybe the reds and yellows will be the anti slavery factions. where as mercs and bandits are heavy in the slave trade. then maybe coastal factions will be the suppliers and if you capture them you disrupt the trade instantly making new enemies.

[nuget102]

haha pretty good ideas there.

i too hope for all those suggestions. being we are seeing only a fraction of the game map and factions we knows. maybe the reds and yellows will be the anti slavery factions. where as mercs and bandits are heavy in the slave trade. then maybe coastal factions will be the suppliers and if you capture them you disrupt the trade instantly making new enemies.

Whatever he Chris has planned, i'm sure it will be great :3

[Masochist]

Hrm....need a law system to go with it too...a good in between between slaves and not would be prisoners...could pay a small amount to use slaves until there sentence is up without the moral hit that pure slavery has, run a prison complex, or having people commit crimes in your lands and the ability to arrest...

All that said though that seems like it would take tons of work...would need to code in criminal behaviors and police behaviors and etc...

[txfirefighter]

are we asking too much?????

[nuget102]

are we asking too much?????

probably...

[UltimaVirus]

Just to add some sort of balancing I'm gunna throw this out there. You can use either slaves or regular employees for labor of all sorts.

CAUTION: WALL OF TEXT! There is so much more to say but only so much can be said before someone's head explodes.

Slaves:
You get a higher level of production which is also affected by the number and skill level of "Overseers" and "Wardens". The problem is that you have to capture slaves, they don't come to you. This, of course, is easier said than done. They would need to be processed into slaves. I suppose this could be done by assigned a Slave Overseer to a mine or other production facility and talking to him after placing slaves in a "slave pin" (for slave detection purposes, any UNARMED individual equipped with "slave gear", such as slave clothes and boots). After said individual is placed in the pin and the overseer is spoken to, such individuals meeting the requirements would immediately change their NPC status to slave and begin labor in the designated production facility... which I suppose can be managed by speaking to an overseer. I suppose an easy way to manage slaves would be to do it based on numbers, for example:

---
Slave Overseer: Your orders, sir?
1. What is our production level?
1a. Coal Mine 1
1b. Robotic Components Factor 1
1c. Ultima's Steel Rod Production

1b Selected:
Robotic Components Factor 1
Slaves Assigned: 10 [Reallocate]
Units per day: 4
Production efficiency: 72%
Location: X34, Y273, Z2778 <- clickable
Wardens: Steve Marka , Bo Roberts <- clickable for warden stats

---
2. I need you to reallocate some slaves.
Response: You currently have [18] slaves distributed as follows:
Coal Mine 1 [4]
Robotic Components Factor 1 [10]
Ultima's Steel Rod Production [1]
Unassigned [3]

Select the facility you would like to modify slave allocation:
Coal Mine 1 [4]
Robotic Components Factor 1 [10]
Ultima's Steel Rod Production [1]
Unassigned [3]

COAL MINE SELECTED:
Coal Mine 1
Slaves: 4
Efficiency level: 23%
REMOVE SLAVES: [#]
ADD SLAVES: [#]
---

You can also mess with it a bit to allow the use of regular employees in CONJUNCTION with slaves by using a Human Resources Overseer (LOL human resources kinda literally, yeah?). Similar dialog, different format.

Human Resources Overseer: Your orders, sir?
1. What is our production level?
1a. Coal Mine 1
1b. Robotic Components Factor 1
1c. Ultima's Steel Rod Production

1b Selected:
Robotic Components Factor 1
Slaves Assigned: 10 [Reallocate]
Voluntary Workers: 4 [Reallocate]
Units per day: 15
Production efficiency: 92%
Location: X34, Y273, Z2778 <- clickable
Wardens: Steve Marka , Bo Roberts <- clickable for warden stats

---
2. I need you to reallocate some people.
Response: You currently have [18] slaves and [10] voluntary workers distributed as follows:
Coal Mine 1 [Slaves: 4] [Voluntary Workers: 3]
Unassigned Slaves[3]
Unassigned Voluntary Workers [19]

Select the facility you would like to modify worker allocation:
Coal Mine 1 [Slaves: 4] [Voluntary Workers: 3]

COAL MINE SELECTED:
Coal Mine 1
Slaves: 4 [10 cats per day]
Voluntary Workers: 10 [400 cats per day]
Efficiency level: 93%
REMOVE SLAVES: [#]
ADD SLAVES: [#]
REMOVE WARDENS: [SELECT INDIVIDUAL]
ADD WARDENS: [SELECT INDIVIDUAL]

Other dialog options might include:
3. I need you to fire/release some people.
4. I need you to disable/shut down a production center.
5. I need you to remove all wardens from this facility.
6. Enslave all individuals in the slave pin.

---

So anyway, as I was saying. You slap some unconscious bodies in the slave pin with the necessary items equipped either before or after dumping. Now, lets say you dump someone that you've carried 10 miles and they immediately become conscious again in the pin. You'll need to knock them out again, sorry. Until they are officially in the pin and the overseer is spoken to, the individual whether equipped or not with slave gear would be classified as a "free" NPC until "enslaved". Of course you don't want to KILL someone you just brought into the slave pin, so I assume Kenshi will eventually utilize blunt/non-lethal weaponry for this (the pin can also be assigned guard for this purpose). Once the slaves are utilized, they will immediately begin walking to the necessary production facility. I assume you can use the excuse of explosive collars to explain their not running away during this process.

[aattss]

Let's keep this realistic.

A higher warden level be better at preventing rebellions, although he might improve the slave's "loyalty" and therefore increase production

If you capture a citizen, then it'll be a little bit before he stops having outbreaks and begins doing a work.

If you capture a worker, he'll be better at working on what he works on normally due to a higher skill level.

If you capture someone trained in combat, he'll refuse to do work and try to spark slave revolts, especially if he's skilled. In other words, they're not worth it. Kill them instead.

If you buy a slave, they'll likely have been "broken" and less likely to revolt, not to mention they'll have better skills, thus making them more useful. However, they're still athletic, and still have their fists.

Oh, and owning slaves will make some of the non-slave factions hate you, although some of them might not really care as much.

Finally, I'll recommend that you don't have slaves to smith swords.

Edit:Oh, and if they can run away, they will, so make sure to utilize fences and make sure your guards are fast. Also, punish the ones that try to run.

[nuget102]

@Ultima where is that explosive collar reference from? I seen a movie with explosive collars forever ago...dont remember the name xD

now back to topic :3 I like the idea Ultima has mostly, except the having to equip them with slave gear... I would rather just toss them into a pit or a cell and then the game assume they are slaves and they will be treated as such :3 if that's possible? if not the slave gear would work...but it would be kinda annoying of course, to remove the risk of turning a teammate into a slave you could make it so any UNARMED individual that's in a cell/pit/pen/dungeon/(whatever holding device you wish to use) is turned into a slave :3 and I really like the idea of being able to have guards x3

[UltimaVirus]

Let's keep this realistic.

I like your ideas, but I have a feeling all of that would come much... much later. Even what I suggested, as basic as it might seem, must be a huge pain in the butt to program. What you're suggesting are separate calculated values for practically everything, which I personally like, but Chris would probably melt before he'd get that detailed into the game. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know how hard it REALLY is or what sorts of problems might arise in such a complex environment. It's ultimately up to the GREAT CREATOR to decide what is realistic to program or not. My idea was very basic.

@Ultima where is that explosive collar reference from? I seen a movie with explosive collars forever ago...dont remember the name xD

now back to topic :3 I like the idea Ultima has mostly, except the having to equip them with slave gear... I would rather just toss them into a pit or a cell and then the game assume they are slaves and they will be treated as such :3 if that's possible? if not the slave gear would work...but it would be kinda annoying of course, to remove the risk of turning a teammate into a slave you could make it so any UNARMED individual that's in a cell/pit/pen/dungeon/(whatever holding device you wish to use) is turned into a slave :3 and I really like the idea of being able to have guards x3

Fallout 3 used explosive radio-controlled collars. Very useful. I figure the slave gear would be used to allow the game to more easily identify proper slave targets as opposed to accidentally enslaving a guard or squad member. The necessity of remove prospective slave's gear is to prevent said gear from either disappearing from the game during the individual->slave transfer, be equipped by the slave (a slave in full army gear? That silly!) or simply being held by the slave like some sort of idiot carrying it around all the time until someone took it from him.

[aattss]

Mainly, I had separate values for skills (which are probably already planned), and a stat for loyalty and/or dissent, and loyalty affects dissent and the spread of dissent, while dissent affects loyalty and has a chance of starting a revolt, although a revolt will increase dissent in those with low loyalty. Of course those who have been enslaved for a while, including those sold, will have naturally high loyalties. However, those with weapons experience, especially with a lot of it, will have naturally low loyalties.

[UltimaVirus]

Mainly, I had separate values for skills (which are probably already planned), and a stat for loyalty and/or dissent, and loyalty affects dissent and the spread of dissent, while dissent affects loyalty and has a chance of starting a revolt, although a revolt will increase dissent in those with low loyalty. Of course those who have been enslaved for a while, including those sold, will have naturally high loyalties. However, those with weapons experience, especially with a lot of it, will have naturally low loyalties.

That's good. Having stats for those is good, but...

How does one determine the rate of change of loyalty? What other things can affect it?
How does dissent spread? Is it person-to-person contact, an area around the individual? Is it constant? Intermittent? Do certain things change the level of spread of dissent in either range, strength or both?
How are revolts handled? Individuals in a range around a revolt-er and at a certain loyalty level automatically get involved? How do they start? What triggers them? What can prevent them?

[Blxz]

A little complicated sounding. I will admit I didn't read the wall of text. Although I do think slaves should not be very productive. They are unwilling workers at best, actively against you at worst. They should be a source of labour that is free but difficult and at times risky to manage.

EDIT: Also I am wary about putting our modern morality into the game. Up until the last few hundred years slavery was a normal practice. it wasn't considered good or bad, in much the same way that owning livestock is neither good or bad. Mistreating your property (slaves/cows/etc.) was frowned upon but actually owning them wasn't.

Not that I advocate slavery, I find it disgusting, but forcing morality into games just seems so...I don't know, so 'bioware'..... if you catch my meaning.

[toaster Assassin]

You should see some of the review complaints of Risen II's.