Survey: Weapon skills

yssarile
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Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:54 am

wazupwolf wrote:not really anything to do with this except the unarmed, will unarmed be signifigantly weak compared to the others? or slightly weak? or weaker but once u get to a certain area quite strong(like oblivion),never liked the oblivion cuz i just couldnt believe a punch could do more than a huge fire enchanted sword,even though i know some martial arts masters can be exetremely deadly in battle able to kill in only a few hits
dude, whoever you are, if you happen to have time to line it up and hit the right places, theyd go down.

seriously, imagine some blind guy was standing there (only so he wouldent move away.. lol), and you pulled your arm back and punched him square in the throat as hard as you could. think hes getting up again? thats a no :P

humans are curiously both surprisingly strong and surprisingly fragile, at the same time.

as for throwing people back 10 feet, might i recommend that being for a kick, not a punch? you can quite happily throw someone on their ass with a good kick, 10 feet is more than a litle extreme but this IS a video game, so hey, whatever works.

what id really like ti see is a detailed unarmed combat system, with the ability to use the environment. i know that is too much to ask, the detailed combat environment, sure, but your not going to get a pre-animation for the sheer variety of leverages you can get out of furnature and the like. i would like to see basic environmental action though, like slamming someones head into a wall, or throwing/pushing them out of a window/off a balcony.

also noted, if you are stealthing around and sneak up on someone, is the proper level of adrenaline responce going to be put in? i mean, if there is a guy standing next to a wall, you walk up behind him and slam his face into it, hes going to drop like a sack of sh*t regardless, but if you hit someone on the head completely unaware, chances are theyl be at LEAST momentarily stunned, whereas once the adrenaline picks up its a lot easier to shrug off. it would be a boon for stealth characters to be able to sneak up on people and smack them on the head with something. maybe a sap? be good for kidnapping and the like. interesting point, could the ai kidnap you? :P that would be interesting.
RustKnight wrote:Oh dear, i just hope you WON'T add ripping arms with bear hands, it's just impossible... and unrealistic i guess
i agree that would be a little too extreme unless you were at whatever level cap there was. i mean, ideally i wouldent like a level cap, have it work off reletive percentages, or something, but it is good to add a little unrealism to the later ends, stops things getting boring so fast, you know? and, that is an interesting point, in theory, it would be possible to exert enough leverage to tear off an arm, no doubt, though in practise itl never be acheived, assuming you were holding at the wrist, where would it tear? im guessing elbow, but i could be wrong :/

also, as weapon classes are going, could we get daggers/knives put in? they would be useful in narrow corridors, and in extreme close quarters, not to mention if you arent playing a combat class, itd be nice for your merchant to pull out his belt knife and stab some dude in the back when his aggressor dropped his guard.

though, to be fair, you could probably have so many weapon types as to be impossible, though i do think daggers/knives are important. tell you what id love to see as an easter egg? a fork. a fork of death!

and i think i remember chris saying somewhere that sheilds wont be included, but i would like to point out, if your attackers, defenders, have ranged weapons, without sheilds your pretty much boned, so it might be beneficial to include them, if nothing else, just for that.

oohhhh! just thought of something, would it be possible for traps and the like to be constructed? like a bear trap, things like that?

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Captain Deathbeard
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Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:08 pm

yssarile wrote:what id really like ti see is a detailed unarmed combat system, with the ability to use the environment. i know that is too much to ask,
yes, its too much to ask. but if you do happen to knock someone off a ledge they will fall all ragdoll like and take damage.

AI can kidnap your guys yes. anyone from bandits to police arrests. You can rescue him, or escape himself. you may get tortured for info on your factior or scheduled for execution.

knives maybe. traps maybe. Shields are not needed because any good movie will tell you that arrows can be avoided by doing backflips.

yssarile
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:18 am

awesome, quick mini-question though, could they be pushed off a low wall, if people are knocked back, are they just set t move back a unit unless an osbsticle is in the way, or would they be able to hit and roll over the edge for the same affect? and now that i think about it, if you do knock someone back into a wall, do they take damage from that?

and the ai kidnapping you/your team mates is sweet, looking forward to playing with that, lol

and an option to backflip away from missile attack would make the internet love you forever, haha

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Captain Deathbeard
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:04 am

A little push wont, only if they are sent flying or falling, then they are at the mercy of physics.

Zephyr8965
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:26 am

Uppercut ftw? Yay for video game physics!

Lol, you realize I'm going to have to see just how many city guards I can knock off of one balcony before I die, right?

yssarile
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:09 am

hell yes, sounds awesome

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Santaissick
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Wed May 28, 2014 10:21 am

Dem five years old threads getting action :shock: :P
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Hatsune_Neko
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Wed May 28, 2014 8:57 pm

Santaissick wrote:Dem five years old threads getting action :shock: :P
means people figured out how to use search =(^.^)=

could also be with the upcoming engine upgrades this becomes viable now?
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RighteousSinner
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Thu May 29, 2014 7:47 am

Hatsune_Neko wrote:means people figured out how to use search =(^.^)=
This, of course, doesn't make necro'ing very old threads any less annoying however.

bk3000
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Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:27 am

Wow a 5 year old thread LOL. I can't believe this game was as old! Well the thread is OLD but the subject matter interests me so lets run with it.

Anyhow since unarmed combat is much of the conversation of this thread I would add something on that subject. It has been a while since i was involved in martial arts but I actually am a (first don) black belt. I think I can give you input to keep unarmed combat both realistic and situationally viable.


1. I don't know about that 10 foot throw thing. Even at high skill levels. I just don't see it.

2. It should pretty well be 100% "blunt" damage. It makes sense in every way.

3. While strength would be important, Dexterity and Athletics (leg speed - and power where kicks are concerned) would be far more critical in an effective unarmed fighter.

4. Relative to #3 I think arm and leg strength might be separate values and trained different ways. Running with heavy stuff won't build your arms for example. You might add punching bags and/or weight benches for the upper body stuff (or just swinging the heavy weapons like now). This isn't much extra work. Athletics pretty well serves as leg speed. Dexterity for arm speed. Strength as is could translate to arm strength. For existing characters you just clone the Arm Strength attribute for Leg Strength so they don't start off with nothing.

5. Rather than being just another way to cause damage damage and adding variety for the mere sake of variety, the main reasons to have a couple unarmed fighters could be
....A. Cause damage mainly to (and thus disable) limbs (and the probably the head too).
....B. Disarming opponents. Obvious enough. Aside from forcing them to fight unarmed as well the AI may rush to grab up their weapons and will be very vulnerable during that attempt.
....C. Causing enemies to loose balance, become stunned, or get knocked down on the ground (which probably means they drop their weapons as well).
....D. They should be more able to knock people out without actually killing them. Very little blood loss. If you want a hostage/bounty/etc this is very useful. While holding the right click with a unarmed fighter selected you might even add the option to "neutralize enemy" as an alternative to "attack target" and "attack all."

6. They would be able to more easily dodge and especially parry (which ties into disarming).
....A. Heavy(slow) weapon users would be especially vulnerable.
....B. Katana (and other fast weapons) users not so much - the unarmed fighters would likely do badly against them on average (also depending on which attacks used). Given the current overpowered nature of larger weapons this is a good way to balance rock-paper-scissors style.
....C. Weapons that are thrust though would be relatively easy enough to dodge/parry. Probably also a vertical slash from a katana etc. Yet not a horizontal slash.

7. Understand that while sport/tournament martial artists may do this "punch low/kick high" nonsense... real martial artist to NOT do this. It looks fancy but it is not practical - as this will almost always get you creamed in a real fight. Kicks should be aimed at damaging a person's legs mostly, but occasionally the lower abdomen too. None of this kick you in the head garbage (at the point you could actually land this you have probably already won).

8. Someone skilled enough in unarmed combat would also have a certain advantage while armed as well. Suppose they block a strike - that may give them an opening to kick their opponent with impunity in certain cases.


Now Captain you mentioned needing footage of some of this to make the animations from or something? I'm not sure how that works but if video is all you need then I might consider producing it for you... at least once I upgrade my phone. There are several nice new phones that do high definition video at high frame rates. I'd think the higher frame rates would make for very nice, fluid animations. I know shaky video would be no good so the phone would be mounted in place. I think my brother does have some wooden swords that would be good for making these motions more realistic. Let me know if that would be of use.

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